00:00:07.380 --> 00:00:10.380
Entering the terrene's atmosphere.

00:00:13.860 --> 00:00:15.220
Recording images.

00:01:12.660 --> 00:01:15.139
Initiating discovery mode.

00:01:19.059 --> 00:01:21.660
Allotted time for investigation:

00:01:22.219 --> 00:01:24.300
Ten rotations.

00:01:31.219 --> 00:01:33.859
Checking stationary camera.

00:01:39.219 --> 00:01:41.979
Checking body mounted camera.

00:01:47.259 --> 00:01:49.419
Checking aerial camera.

00:01:55.499 --> 00:01:57.859
All recording devices operational.

00:02:29.180 --> 00:02:35.140
My purpose: film, catalog and
search for causes of human extinction.

00:02:36.539 --> 00:02:40.180
And recover evidence leading to perpetrators.

00:04:35.940 --> 00:04:37.940
Media intercepted.

00:04:42.060 --> 00:04:49.099
Interesting. Audio files of witness interviews
recorded on the terrene before elimination events.

00:05:16.940 --> 00:05:20.620
What will this audio data
from the extinct terrene civilization

00:05:20.779 --> 00:05:23.940
reveal about past and current conditions?

00:05:37.140 --> 00:05:39.060
Audio files' source:

00:05:39.940 --> 00:05:43.900
Voice recordings for a film
with the title Tipping the Scales

00:05:44.020 --> 00:05:46.659
by the human Susanne Brandstaetter.

00:05:50.859 --> 00:05:55.060
I have to analyze
the data's structure and significance.

00:06:05.299 --> 00:06:10.580
Interview Irakli Loladze,
mathematical biologist, Nebraska, USA.

00:06:11.900 --> 00:06:15.299
Irakli Loladze,
you've crunched 40 years of data

00:06:15.460 --> 00:06:19.900
to investigate the effects
of rising CO2 levels on plants.

00:06:21.060 --> 00:06:26.380
Could you tell me why rising atmospheric CO2
is a problem for our crops?

00:06:27.659 --> 00:06:30.739
It's not a problem for our crops.

00:06:30.859 --> 00:06:34.060
It's a problem for those that eat crops.

00:06:34.500 --> 00:06:40.140
Plants evolved
to convert CO2 in the air into sugars

00:06:40.260 --> 00:06:43.060
via the process of photosynthesis.

00:06:44.260 --> 00:06:49.779
So when you give them more CO2,
they like it, they absorb it,

00:06:49.900 --> 00:06:53.419
and the majority of plants grow faster,

00:06:53.580 --> 00:06:55.179
they grow bigger.

00:06:55.380 --> 00:06:57.859
They save water.

00:06:57.979 --> 00:07:02.700
They don't have to transpire as much water
at higher CO2 concentrations.

00:07:03.940 --> 00:07:06.099
And so, it's good for crops.

00:07:06.260 --> 00:07:08.020
It's good for plants.

00:07:13.460 --> 00:07:18.779
But plants didn't evolve
to keep our nutrition optimal.

00:07:19.460 --> 00:07:22.979
And so they take more CO2.

00:07:23.099 --> 00:07:25.580
They make out of it
more sugars and starches

00:07:25.700 --> 00:07:30.700
and a large proportion of that
they keep in their tissues.

00:07:33.179 --> 00:07:38.859
So we end up with more crops,
but worse quality.

00:07:41.339 --> 00:07:45.900
So the rising CO2 affects
the nutritional value of the foods we eat.

00:07:46.260 --> 00:07:47.380
Yeah, right.

00:07:47.500 --> 00:07:51.060
Because they absorb more of this CO2,

00:07:51.219 --> 00:07:54.299
the proportion of other nutrients drops.

00:07:55.060 --> 00:08:01.260
Nutrients that are essential for us,
like magnesium, calcium, iron, zinc.

00:08:02.140 --> 00:08:06.900
And the mineral density
of plants worldwide is going down.

00:08:08.260 --> 00:08:11.659
I want to point out
that it doesn't really hurt plants.

00:08:11.820 --> 00:08:14.620
They're fine with it.
It just hurts us.

00:08:39.260 --> 00:08:41.419
Which crops are most affected?

00:08:41.539 --> 00:08:45.579
We're talking about wheat and rice
and most fruits and vegetables.

00:08:45.699 --> 00:08:48.260
So, most of the crops
that we eat.

00:08:48.380 --> 00:08:50.860
We should realize that all the sugars,

00:08:50.980 --> 00:08:52.860
all the starches that we eat,

00:08:52.980 --> 00:08:57.299
they all ultimately come from the air,
from the CO2.

00:08:58.419 --> 00:09:00.819
And it's not the responsibility of plants

00:09:00.939 --> 00:09:06.939
to take that excess and convert it somehow
to the nutrients that we need.

00:09:08.100 --> 00:09:10.620
They're just not evolved for that.

00:09:11.740 --> 00:09:15.699
And the scary part is
that it's a hidden effect.

00:09:16.980 --> 00:09:23.020
So this is not visible in any way
at the point of sale to consumers.

00:09:23.699 --> 00:09:26.980
But underneath that,
there is this depletion

00:09:27.419 --> 00:09:32.059
and that is happening
every year at an increasing rate

00:09:32.220 --> 00:09:35.179
as CO2 concentrations keep climbing.

00:10:21.059 --> 00:10:27.419
This recording proves that human scientists
saw changes in the terrene's fundamental chemistry.

00:10:29.059 --> 00:10:33.020
Yet it seems the humans
couldn't prevent their own extinction.

00:10:35.260 --> 00:10:36.980
Why?

00:10:38.699 --> 00:10:42.539
I need to go deeper
into this archive.

00:10:50.059 --> 00:10:54.539
Interview with Lewis Ziska,
plant biologist, Columbia University.

00:10:56.100 --> 00:11:00.179
Lewis Ziska, you've been researching
on the effects of climate change on plants

00:11:00.340 --> 00:11:02.100
for over 30 years.

00:11:02.299 --> 00:11:06.020
For 24 years at the US Department
of Agriculture ...

00:11:06.699 --> 00:11:10.020
Your special focus is
on the impact that rising ...

00:11:10.419 --> 00:11:15.900
Why is it so important to know more
about how CO2 influences plant biology?

00:11:16.500 --> 00:11:19.340
Well, you're looking at
a whole host of different issues

00:11:19.500 --> 00:11:22.579
that will directly relate to human health

00:11:23.659 --> 00:11:26.539
and the quality of the food
that you consume.

00:11:27.779 --> 00:11:30.340
Changes in micronutrients,

00:11:30.500 --> 00:11:35.620
changes in protein that we observe
in staples like rice and wheat.

00:11:36.419 --> 00:11:39.220
But that's just the human side of things.

00:11:39.340 --> 00:11:42.900
From an ecosystem point of view,
or an environmental point of view,

00:11:43.020 --> 00:11:46.340
by affecting the nutritional component
of that food chain,

00:11:46.459 --> 00:11:51.500
you affect all the different aspects, all the
different animals that rely on plants for food,

00:11:51.620 --> 00:11:53.939
which is to say all animal life.

00:11:54.100 --> 00:11:56.340
So it's a very, very big deal.

00:11:59.980 --> 00:12:03.459
Does that also affect insects?

00:12:03.579 --> 00:12:06.500
Well, insects are animals.

00:12:07.340 --> 00:12:10.819
Yeah, I know. They have
their own category, but yeah.

00:12:12.779 --> 00:12:15.100
There's work that's going on suggesting

00:12:15.220 --> 00:12:20.939
that as CO2 affects
the protein content of various plants,

00:12:21.100 --> 00:12:26.260
then that translates
into changes in the insect biodiversity.

00:12:26.419 --> 00:12:29.059
That in turn
will affect the bird biodiversity

00:12:29.179 --> 00:12:32.340
because birds eat insects
and so on and so on.

00:12:33.579 --> 00:12:39.100
All of those things are to say that
this aspect of the food chain,

00:12:39.260 --> 00:12:43.340
not just the human food chain
but the natural food chain,

00:12:43.459 --> 00:12:48.419
are going to be impacted both
by carbon dioxide and by climate change.

00:12:52.740 --> 00:12:59.579
It's shifting the dietary requirements
in a way that we don't yet understand.

00:12:59.939 --> 00:13:04.100
That's an obvious area of research
that needs to be funded,

00:13:04.260 --> 00:13:06.340
and yet we're not doing it.

00:13:07.340 --> 00:13:11.340
And this is, again,
one of the just obvious shortcomings

00:13:11.459 --> 00:13:15.059
with respect to understanding
the links between carbon dioxide,

00:13:15.220 --> 00:13:17.459
climate and nutrition.

00:13:19.659 --> 00:13:27.059
So, basically this change in CO2
affects evolution in general.

00:13:27.939 --> 00:13:31.659
Yes. Without plants we would die.

00:13:31.819 --> 00:13:33.900
And now we're affecting

00:13:34.020 --> 00:13:38.500
how they grow,
where they grow and their quality.

00:13:40.539 --> 00:13:46.900
This is a global experiment that
we are doing without any controls.

00:13:52.539 --> 00:13:54.939
It's so frustrating

00:13:55.059 --> 00:13:59.699
because we have eight billion people
in the world right now.

00:13:59.819 --> 00:14:02.860
It was less than
three billion when I was born.

00:14:03.020 --> 00:14:06.100
We expect another two billion this century.

00:14:06.220 --> 00:14:10.419
We can't go on like this.
It isn't going to be sustainable.

00:14:13.779 --> 00:14:17.620
Maybe it's a problem that folks have
just not wrapped their heads around yet.

00:14:17.779 --> 00:14:20.579
Or it seems so daunting

00:14:20.740 --> 00:14:22.740
that we don't want to get started.

00:14:22.900 --> 00:14:26.340
But if we don't start,
if we don't do something soon,

00:14:27.980 --> 00:14:34.260
the ramifications are, literally,
people will starve to death.

00:14:52.380 --> 00:14:58.059
Their scientists warned that human activities
were altering the natural food chain.

00:14:58.380 --> 00:15:04.340
And I've registered inconsistent deterioration
and regeneration in multiple environments.

00:15:07.779 --> 00:15:11.699
Could these changes be a clue
to why larger species vanished?

00:15:12.740 --> 00:15:14.860
Or were other connections at play?

00:17:26.300 --> 00:17:31.780
Interview Jonathan Lynch,
plant physiologist, Penn State University.

00:17:32.699 --> 00:17:34.939
Jonathan Lynch, you're a professor...
- Sorry, Susanne.

00:17:35.100 --> 00:17:39.300
I'm realizing that the smoke for the past
couple of days is affecting my voice a little bit.

00:17:39.459 --> 00:17:42.540
I'm sorry, but I have to
clear my throat occasionally.

00:17:42.699 --> 00:17:44.860
We're experiencing massive smoke

00:17:45.019 --> 00:17:48.340
from fires in Canada
that are devastating Canadian forests.

00:17:50.019 --> 00:17:55.219
So, Jonathan Lynch,
you're a professor of plant physiology,

00:17:55.580 --> 00:17:58.620
who is specialized in crop adaptation.

00:17:58.860 --> 00:18:00.860
What do you see as the biggest challenges

00:18:01.019 --> 00:18:04.739
when it comes to growing food crops
and global warming?

00:18:05.860 --> 00:18:10.739
Well, I think the biggest challenge
is going to be twofold.

00:18:11.100 --> 00:18:17.259
All the models tell us that rainfall will
become more uncertain in future climates.

00:18:17.419 --> 00:18:22.659
And this is going to lead to both flooding
on the one hand and drought on the other hand.

00:18:23.380 --> 00:18:27.780
That will lead to greater soil erosion
and soil degradation.

00:18:28.100 --> 00:18:32.140
And the rising temperatures directly affect
the reproduction of many plants.

00:18:32.300 --> 00:18:34.820
So you can have leaves and stems
but no seeds,

00:18:34.979 --> 00:18:38.060
because the pollen is not
functioning properly under high heat.

00:18:38.219 --> 00:18:42.019
And that's also beginning to happen
in different parts of the world.

00:18:42.699 --> 00:18:47.620
Also, drought and high temperatures
will reduce plant growth.

00:18:47.780 --> 00:18:52.739
And since the soil health
is driven by soil organic matter,

00:18:52.900 --> 00:18:54.860
which is produced from plants,

00:18:55.019 --> 00:18:58.860
reducing plant production
will also degrade soil fertility.

00:18:59.300 --> 00:19:03.979
So we have a serious problem
with soil quality, soil fertility

00:19:04.140 --> 00:19:07.100
and that will be exacerbated
by climate change.

00:19:07.699 --> 00:19:11.900
And there's soil degradation
and unsustainable cropping practices.

00:19:12.060 --> 00:19:15.219
They also contribute to global warming, right?

00:19:15.380 --> 00:19:20.419
Yes, our whole model of agriculture
in rich nations is unsustainable.

00:19:20.580 --> 00:19:23.300
That's been recognized
by scientists for many years.

00:19:24.499 --> 00:19:29.019
Now, as you know, Susanne,
a lot of damage has already been done

00:19:29.179 --> 00:19:30.820
and that damage is continuing.

00:19:30.979 --> 00:19:35.300
Even if humanity ceases to exist today,
which hopefully does not happen,

00:19:35.459 --> 00:19:39.219
the models tell us that the things
we've started to do to the environment

00:19:39.380 --> 00:19:42.659
will still have repercussions
for many, many years.

00:19:45.860 --> 00:19:49.380
But there's technologies
that actually help reverse that process.

00:19:49.540 --> 00:19:53.659
And that's some of the work we do here,
for example, with plant roots.

00:19:54.219 --> 00:19:59.380
Different models show that if we take maize,
which is one of the leading global crops,

00:19:59.540 --> 00:20:03.900
if we made maize roots deeper,
just in the United States,

00:20:04.060 --> 00:20:08.499
we could offset a significant portion of
all the carbon emissions in the US.

00:20:09.499 --> 00:20:12.820
In the past people haven't thought about
needing more stress resistant,

00:20:12.979 --> 00:20:15.659
tough, resilient plants with deep roots.

00:20:16.340 --> 00:20:18.659
And it takes time.
It takes time to breed those.

00:20:18.820 --> 00:20:22.620
And so, we just haven't had
enough foresight as a community.

00:20:24.580 --> 00:20:27.540
But the question is not
whether it's going to happen.

00:20:28.179 --> 00:20:32.219
The question is, is it going to happen
soon enough to make a difference?

00:21:41.380 --> 00:21:44.100
Their recordings serve as baseline data,

00:21:44.340 --> 00:21:46.900
a window into the world that was.

00:21:48.419 --> 00:21:51.060
They proposed solutions.

00:21:51.340 --> 00:21:54.140
Were they prevented
from acting on them in time?

00:22:03.540 --> 00:22:09.300
Kristen DeAngelis, microbiologist,
University of Massachusetts Amherst.

00:22:09.780 --> 00:22:16.019
Kristen DeAngelis, why are soil organisms
essential for the health of our environment?

00:22:16.820 --> 00:22:22.019
One of the wonderful things that soil does
is it stores a ton of carbon.

00:22:22.979 --> 00:22:26.979
So, there is right now,
in the soils on Earth,

00:22:27.140 --> 00:22:31.380
three times as much carbon
as there is in the atmosphere.

00:22:31.540 --> 00:22:33.580
A tremendous amount of carbon

00:22:33.739 --> 00:22:37.459
that is protected in the ground
and not released as CO2.

00:22:38.219 --> 00:22:42.860
And so this is one of the benefits
of the soil microbes

00:22:43.459 --> 00:22:48.219
is that healthy soil microbes
are putting out relatively little CO2,

00:22:48.380 --> 00:22:54.979
and they are not acting as a self-reinforcing
feedback to our climate system.

00:22:56.259 --> 00:23:01.580
So have soil microbial communities been
negatively impacted by global warming?

00:23:02.060 --> 00:23:03.580
Absolutely.

00:23:04.739 --> 00:23:09.019
Bacteria and fungi
are the main microbial players

00:23:09.179 --> 00:23:12.900
that make the soil
a healthy place for plants.

00:23:13.219 --> 00:23:15.540
And what we've found is that

00:23:15.780 --> 00:23:19.780
the fungi don't do as well
in this warming world.

00:23:20.620 --> 00:23:23.979
But the bacteria,
their numbers are about the same.

00:23:24.179 --> 00:23:26.459
The communities are a bit different,

00:23:26.739 --> 00:23:29.259
they are acquiring new traits

00:23:29.419 --> 00:23:34.820
that help them to adapt
to this warmer world,

00:23:34.979 --> 00:23:39.580
where the soil is drier
and where there is less food.

00:23:51.659 --> 00:23:56.739
So, when soil microbial communities
adapt like that to climate change,

00:23:56.900 --> 00:23:58.699
is that good or bad?

00:23:59.540 --> 00:24:05.179
I guess it's good news because it means
that maybe we wouldn't see the problems

00:24:05.340 --> 00:24:09.179
that we would otherwise see
if the microbes weren't adapting.

00:24:09.699 --> 00:24:13.659
But I don't know if we can understand

00:24:13.820 --> 00:24:19.019
how this is going to have repercussions
for things like soil formation

00:24:19.179 --> 00:24:22.380
or plant microbial interactions.

00:24:22.860 --> 00:24:27.659
And then also,
most of the microbes that are in the world

00:24:27.820 --> 00:24:31.140
are either good
or they're not hurting anybody.

00:24:32.100 --> 00:24:38.300
But the climate change effects are also
affecting microbes that are harmful.

00:24:38.979 --> 00:24:45.419
And so what we don't understand is
that this sort of increased fitness

00:24:45.580 --> 00:24:49.659
or increased hardiness
of soil microbes in a warming world

00:24:49.820 --> 00:24:53.620
might also extend
to pathogens, for example.

00:24:55.459 --> 00:24:59.939
So I think the consequences
are unclear at this point.

00:26:15.620 --> 00:26:18.300
The humans' environmental manipulation

00:26:18.459 --> 00:26:22.580
left markers I can still detect
in the geological record.

00:26:25.019 --> 00:26:29.540
I need further evidence in order
to complete my mission

00:26:31.060 --> 00:26:35.820
and uncover what triggered
the elimination events.

00:28:26.340 --> 00:28:30.860
Interview Serita Frey,
ecologist, University of New Hampshire.

00:28:32.699 --> 00:28:36.100
Serita Frey,
you're a professor of microbial ecology.

00:28:36.820 --> 00:28:41.860
How does agriculture contribute to
the degradation of soil microbial communities?

00:28:43.499 --> 00:28:46.540
Anytime you disturb the soil,
you are

00:28:47.100 --> 00:28:50.659
disrupting a natural microbial community.

00:28:50.820 --> 00:28:56.060
So, I don't think that this is
exclusive to industrialized agriculture.

00:28:56.219 --> 00:29:00.459
But of course, industrialized agriculture
is done on a very large scale,

00:29:00.620 --> 00:29:03.979
and so it has a larger relative impact.

00:29:06.860 --> 00:29:08.860
Carbon dioxide is not the only issue.

00:29:09.019 --> 00:29:12.820
Agricultural systems
are the primary source of nitrous oxide

00:29:12.979 --> 00:29:17.100
because of our widespread use
of nitrogen fertilizers.

00:29:18.019 --> 00:29:23.459
Some of this gets converted to gaseous form,
and that is lost to the atmosphere

00:29:23.620 --> 00:29:25.739
and then contributes to climate warming.

00:29:27.739 --> 00:29:29.459
When we add excess nitrogen,

00:29:29.620 --> 00:29:34.100
we change the types of organisms
that are living in the soils.

00:29:34.820 --> 00:29:40.659
This actually slows down
the decomposition of organic matter.

00:29:47.699 --> 00:29:52.419
And this then affects
the release of nutrients that forests

00:29:52.580 --> 00:29:56.620
or other ecosystems
depend on for their sustainability.

00:30:06.580 --> 00:30:11.060
Do you see any parallels between
the degradation of the soils' microbiomes

00:30:11.219 --> 00:30:13.580
and other microbiomes in nature?

00:30:14.820 --> 00:30:20.100
The way we influence
the gut microbiome of livestock and animals

00:30:20.259 --> 00:30:24.019
ultimately can feed back to influence soils.

00:30:26.140 --> 00:30:32.179
You know, we are feeding antibiotics
to livestock to mitigate disease

00:30:32.300 --> 00:30:35.540
but also as growth promoting substances.

00:30:35.699 --> 00:30:37.939
And when a cow, for example,

00:30:38.100 --> 00:30:42.659
poops out the antibiotic-resistant microbes
that have developed in its gut,

00:30:42.820 --> 00:30:45.380
those can then end up in the soil.

00:30:46.860 --> 00:30:50.179
And this can lead
to antibiotic resistance in the soil,

00:30:50.340 --> 00:30:55.100
which ultimately can influence
the human microbiome and human health.

00:31:03.259 --> 00:31:06.259
There's some really new,
interesting research that shows

00:31:06.419 --> 00:31:10.939
that the introduction of
these antibiotic resistance genes into soil

00:31:11.100 --> 00:31:13.860
actually influences the carbon cycle

00:31:14.019 --> 00:31:18.499
and the ability of soil microorganisms
to decompose organic matter.

00:31:19.300 --> 00:31:24.820
And it also then affects the release of carbon
from the soil into the atmosphere.

00:32:52.979 --> 00:32:55.939
Processing these fragments
of human knowledge

00:32:56.060 --> 00:32:59.140
produces odd sensations
to my consciousness.

00:33:02.499 --> 00:33:05.419
I'm beginning to make interesting connections,

00:33:05.580 --> 00:33:07.900
like the human, Susanne.

00:33:15.140 --> 00:33:21.300
Chemicals and materials designed to last forever.
That was short-sighted.

00:33:22.019 --> 00:33:27.380
And they called ME artificial intelligence.

00:34:08.260 --> 00:34:11.180
Interview Jack Gilbert,
University of California, San Diego.

00:34:11.619 --> 00:34:16.700
Microbial ecologist,
oceanologist and pediatric doctor.

00:34:18.900 --> 00:34:21.820
Jack Gilbert,
your focus is on the human microbiome

00:34:21.979 --> 00:34:25.099
as well as on environmental microbiology.

00:34:26.220 --> 00:34:32.220
Is there a parallel between the microbiomes
in the environment and human microbiomes?

00:34:33.059 --> 00:34:36.700
Bacteria, microbes in general, viruses

00:34:36.860 --> 00:34:39.780
and a lot of other organisms
that are unicellular

00:34:39.939 --> 00:34:42.419
have been around for four billion years.

00:34:42.579 --> 00:34:48.939
And so, realistically, the environment
and our bodies are the same thing.

00:34:49.099 --> 00:34:50.820
We're just another lump of flesh

00:34:50.979 --> 00:34:55.139
that has come along in the last
500,000 years, that they've colonized.

00:34:55.660 --> 00:35:00.180
So the vast majority of the ocean
or the soils of our planet,

00:35:00.419 --> 00:35:01.939
microbes colonize it.

00:35:02.099 --> 00:35:07.300
And the ones that survive can thrive because
of the types of nutrients which are around.

00:35:07.459 --> 00:35:11.660
Or the temperature or the pH
that's found in that particular environment.

00:35:11.820 --> 00:35:14.139
That's niche selection.

00:35:15.059 --> 00:35:19.979
And that's what's been changing so much
with the warming of our Earth.

00:35:20.139 --> 00:35:23.019
Yeah. As you can see,
we're changing the planet

00:35:23.180 --> 00:35:26.939
with our industrial activities
and our greed and need.

00:35:27.419 --> 00:35:31.740
However, you know, I have a lot of faith
that we're actually able to manifest

00:35:31.900 --> 00:35:36.059
great change in our society
through technological advancements.

00:35:36.220 --> 00:35:39.860
But can you always know
if it's really beneficial to the world?

00:35:40.019 --> 00:35:41.099
Absolutely not.

00:35:41.260 --> 00:35:45.900
We're legendarily good at making mistakes
when we think we know too much.

00:35:46.539 --> 00:35:49.139
From cane toads in Australia to,

00:35:49.300 --> 00:35:54.019
you know, modification of the ocean,
by dumping iron into it.

00:35:54.180 --> 00:35:59.220
We make mistakes, right? But hopefully,
we make more successes than mistakes,

00:35:59.380 --> 00:36:02.740
and that those successes
will add up to our ability

00:36:02.900 --> 00:36:05.820
to accurately manipulate
that environment.

00:36:09.059 --> 00:36:11.099
What we don't really understand is

00:36:11.260 --> 00:36:16.979
what impact a healthy bacterial community,
say, in the ocean or in a soil,

00:36:17.139 --> 00:36:21.340
might actually have upon
our microbiome, and our health.

00:36:21.740 --> 00:36:24.059
We're starting to unpack that.

00:36:28.260 --> 00:36:34.220
So what are the causal relationships
that cause harm to our microbiomes?

00:36:34.539 --> 00:36:38.860
Well, let me rephrase that question:
How do you get a healthy microbiome?

00:36:38.979 --> 00:36:43.459
Number one, you have to ensure that
the exposure that your body is receiving,

00:36:43.579 --> 00:36:46.979
especially early in life, is healthy.

00:36:47.180 --> 00:36:49.740
But number two, it's mostly diet.

00:36:49.900 --> 00:36:54.900
So again, what we eat
affects what bacteria can grow in our gut,

00:36:55.059 --> 00:36:59.820
and that affects what chemical products
those bacteria can provide to our body.

00:37:00.499 --> 00:37:05.860
So, could pollution or also eating fast food,
for example, affect the bacteria?

00:37:06.619 --> 00:37:08.380
Absolutely. Yeah.

00:37:08.539 --> 00:37:12.300
We've actually demonstrated
that being exposed to pollution

00:37:12.459 --> 00:37:15.139
changes your immune system,
causes inflammation,

00:37:15.300 --> 00:37:18.340
which alters which bacteria
can grow in your body.

00:37:18.499 --> 00:37:22.260
So it will kill off good bacteria
and allow bad bacteria to proliferate,

00:37:22.419 --> 00:37:26.139
which will exacerbate the inflammation
and cause poor outcomes in health,

00:37:26.300 --> 00:37:29.419
such as cardiovascular disease,
immune disorders,

00:37:29.579 --> 00:37:34.220
endocrine disorders that can
negatively affect our long-term health.

00:39:44.059 --> 00:39:48.059
That means, the health of our environment
and what we eat

00:39:48.220 --> 00:39:53.700
influences the makeup of our microbiome
and whether we can stay healthy or not.

00:39:54.340 --> 00:39:59.019
Correct. And we are attempting
to try to track and keep that.

00:39:59.380 --> 00:40:02.619
So we're working with scientists
from around the world

00:40:02.740 --> 00:40:07.539
to capture bacterial communities,
from the soils, from animals, from plants,

00:40:07.700 --> 00:40:12.180
but more importantly, from our bodies
and store them in a repository.

00:40:12.340 --> 00:40:16.860
So, in the future, we may be able
to recreate those ecosystems

00:40:17.019 --> 00:40:21.539
from the microbe up,
in order to promote the growth of plants,

00:40:21.900 --> 00:40:26.099
in order to make animals healthier,
in order to make ourselves healthier.

00:40:26.260 --> 00:40:29.180
In order to regrow soils on our planet,

00:40:29.340 --> 00:40:33.419
if, for example, we reach a tipping point
and they become too damaged.

00:40:34.139 --> 00:40:37.380
You know, even if
we eradicated life on Earth,

00:40:37.579 --> 00:40:40.220
microbes would still be there,
we can't kill them.

00:40:40.380 --> 00:40:43.019
And they would just regrow the planet,

00:40:43.499 --> 00:40:47.260
slowly but surely, over the next
two, three hundred million years.

00:40:47.419 --> 00:40:49.939
And then there'll be
an entirely new world.

00:40:50.099 --> 00:40:54.340
So, we're not that important
in the overall scheme of things.

00:43:55.499 --> 00:43:58.860
Again, massive pollution.

00:43:59.700 --> 00:44:06.459
They documented the relationship between
environmental health and their own microbiomes.

00:44:07.059 --> 00:44:11.860
This raises intriguing questions
about the nature of intelligence itself.

00:44:12.539 --> 00:44:19.459
Does the capacity to understand a threat
equate to the ability to react to it?

00:44:35.019 --> 00:44:38.340
Interview Heribert Hirt,
botanist and biochemist,

00:44:38.499 --> 00:44:42.900
King Abdullah University of Science
and Technology, Saudi Arabia.

00:44:44.139 --> 00:44:47.459
Heribert Hirt,
you're a professor of plant science.

00:44:47.619 --> 00:44:52.660
Your main area of research is on desert soils,
and the plants and microbes living there.

00:44:52.820 --> 00:44:56.619
Why is it important to study
plants in these environments?

00:44:58.300 --> 00:45:03.780
The desert was for me
always an extreme place of survival,

00:45:03.900 --> 00:45:08.459
and we just have to go there and look
what we could learn from there

00:45:08.660 --> 00:45:12.220
to solve our problems
that we have basically created.

00:45:13.740 --> 00:45:17.340
If you think about
food production and food security,

00:45:18.300 --> 00:45:21.660
if you have
a drought period of one month,

00:45:22.579 --> 00:45:26.820
you will have basically a reduction
in your harvest by 80 percent

00:45:27.939 --> 00:45:30.499
or maybe even a total loss of harvest.

00:45:31.340 --> 00:45:36.579
So, plants have the ability
to survive under these conditions

00:45:36.820 --> 00:45:40.979
but not the ones that we are using
in agriculture right now.

00:45:42.939 --> 00:45:45.139
We only realized recently that,

00:45:45.539 --> 00:45:52.099
basically, the plants on this planet evolved
in a symbiosis with microbes in the soil.

00:45:53.820 --> 00:45:57.260
And not only that
they are interacting with soil microbes,

00:45:57.419 --> 00:46:00.139
but they are housing these microbes.

00:46:01.820 --> 00:46:04.300
These microbes are incredible

00:46:04.459 --> 00:46:08.499
because they can help plants
to grow under various conditions.

00:46:08.979 --> 00:46:12.660
They can help them
resist against diseases,

00:46:13.260 --> 00:46:16.740
but they also produce
a lot of secondary products.

00:46:17.499 --> 00:46:22.019
These can be vitamins, these can be
products that we actually search for

00:46:22.139 --> 00:46:23.780
to help humans

00:46:24.139 --> 00:46:27.979
in terms of boosting immunity,
for example.

00:46:28.099 --> 00:46:33.740
So, here is the connection between
soil, plant biology, agriculture,

00:46:34.059 --> 00:46:36.939
the food that we eat
and human health.

00:46:37.660 --> 00:46:40.780
And we have been basically
breaking this cycle.

00:46:40.900 --> 00:46:44.059
And that's where
a lot of the problems come from.

00:46:45.700 --> 00:46:48.619
Now, if you are buying processed food,

00:46:48.780 --> 00:46:52.660
or if you're buying food
that comes from intensive agriculture

00:46:52.820 --> 00:46:55.780
that we are using right now
with a lot of chemicals,

00:46:55.939 --> 00:46:59.019
we have basically no microbes in there.

00:47:00.660 --> 00:47:04.099
I would actually call that "dead food".

00:47:05.780 --> 00:47:08.579
It's not only
the micronutrients and the vitamins,

00:47:08.740 --> 00:47:12.139
it's also that you need microbes
that are in the food.

00:47:12.660 --> 00:47:17.180
Your own gut microbiome
is basically fed from this.

00:47:17.619 --> 00:47:22.300
If you have an antibiotic treatment,
you are killing your gut microbiome.

00:47:22.900 --> 00:47:25.180
Now, where does it come back from?

00:47:25.740 --> 00:47:29.900
The only source that it can come back from
is from the plants that you eat.

00:47:31.139 --> 00:47:35.419
We've always been thinking that plants
make the micronutrients and the vitamins,

00:47:35.579 --> 00:47:40.099
but, in fact, the majority are made from
the microbes that live inside the plants.

00:47:43.979 --> 00:47:47.180
So, there is an interaction between

00:47:47.340 --> 00:47:51.979
the soil microbiome
and our gut microbiome.

00:47:52.139 --> 00:47:54.780
Absolutely. Everything is connected.

00:47:54.939 --> 00:47:59.380
And I think we have to cure,
in a certain way, also the agricultural land

00:47:59.539 --> 00:48:03.220
by bringing back the microbes
that we have killed already.

00:50:06.740 --> 00:50:08.660
You mentioned that plants in the desert

00:50:08.820 --> 00:50:12.059
have the ability to survive
under extreme conditions.

00:50:12.180 --> 00:50:14.419
How are they able to do that?

00:50:15.619 --> 00:50:17.780
We discovered many years back that

00:50:17.900 --> 00:50:22.260
the microbes are actually playing
an important role in instructing the plants

00:50:22.419 --> 00:50:25.019
how to become resistant to heat.

00:50:25.939 --> 00:50:30.539
And the idea was that if we can
isolate these microbes and

00:50:31.099 --> 00:50:35.220
add them to crop plants
that we use for food production,

00:50:35.340 --> 00:50:39.780
we might actually also transfer this ability
to these crop plants.

00:50:40.820 --> 00:50:45.619
And actually,
I was stunned that this works so easily.

00:50:45.900 --> 00:50:48.700
So we have isolated
so many different strains

00:50:48.860 --> 00:50:53.619
that can make plants resistant
against heat or against drought.

00:50:54.260 --> 00:50:56.820
Is there any risk involved with that?

00:50:56.979 --> 00:50:59.979
Well, you could say,
"Oh yeah, maybe this is dangerous."

00:51:00.139 --> 00:51:04.059
But I've got a colleague
who is studying the transfer of microbes

00:51:04.260 --> 00:51:09.820
by completely natural winds
from South America to Africa, to Asia.

00:51:11.139 --> 00:51:15.380
You have these going around the world.
So, I think this potential danger

00:51:15.539 --> 00:51:20.499
that you are bringing something bad
and dangerous from one place to another

00:51:20.780 --> 00:51:24.860
is so nonexistent.

00:51:26.579 --> 00:51:30.820
I mean, what's the risk right now
if we just continue the way we do?

00:51:33.860 --> 00:51:37.459
25 to 29 percent of all global warming

00:51:37.619 --> 00:51:41.099
is actually due to the way
we do agriculture right now.

00:51:41.860 --> 00:51:48.619
So either we really accept the challenge
that we have to change things massively,

00:51:49.740 --> 00:51:54.979
or we will actually change
the conditions on this planet so radically

00:51:55.820 --> 00:52:01.860
that we might end up having killed
most of the existing life forms.

00:52:03.619 --> 00:52:06.419
This happened already
five times on this planet.

00:52:06.579 --> 00:52:11.740
I mean, maybe not everyone will be
exterminated at the same time,

00:52:12.300 --> 00:52:18.780
but, I think, we are really on the edge
of extermination of our own species.

00:53:27.499 --> 00:53:31.260
Humans understood their bodies
were complex environments,

00:53:31.579 --> 00:53:33.979
dependent on the microscopic allies

00:53:34.139 --> 00:53:37.900
they increasingly endangered
through their industrial activities.

00:53:52.740 --> 00:53:54.619
Yet their value systems appear to

00:53:54.780 --> 00:53:56.780
have been fundamentally misaligned

00:53:56.939 --> 00:53:58.260
with biological reality.

00:54:00.780 --> 00:54:01.820
Why?

00:54:17.780 --> 00:54:20.579
Interview Marion Nestle,
New York University.

00:54:22.260 --> 00:54:25.180
Marion Nestle,
you're a molecular biologist,

00:54:25.340 --> 00:54:29.220
professor of nutrition, food studies,
and public health, emerita.

00:54:32.860 --> 00:54:36.139
There's a lot of business
with fortified food products,

00:54:36.300 --> 00:54:38.700
and the food and pharma companies
are now creative

00:54:38.860 --> 00:54:41.220
in marketing so-called
functional foods.

00:54:41.499 --> 00:54:42.740
How do you see this?

00:54:43.939 --> 00:54:48.419
Well, one of the fastest growing
areas of the food industry

00:54:48.579 --> 00:54:51.820
is what they call nutraceuticals
or functional foods

00:54:52.019 --> 00:54:54.220
that have vitamins
and minerals added

00:54:54.380 --> 00:54:57.099
or herbal supplements added.

00:54:57.419 --> 00:54:59.860
Or some other kind of

00:55:00.019 --> 00:55:04.780
substance that is supposed
to make you healthier.

00:55:05.419 --> 00:55:09.499
The research on nutraceuticals
and functional foods

00:55:09.660 --> 00:55:12.660
is just like the research
on supplements.

00:55:13.340 --> 00:55:19.139
There's very little evidence that these foods
make anybody who is healthy healthier.

00:55:19.900 --> 00:55:24.499
And very little evidence
for healthfulness in general,

00:55:24.660 --> 00:55:29.860
except for the studies that are funded
by the companies that make these products.

00:55:30.780 --> 00:55:33.260
Could you tell me some more about that?

00:55:33.419 --> 00:55:38.740
Yes. The research on industry-funded research
demonstrates without question

00:55:38.900 --> 00:55:43.099
that industry-funded research
tends to come out with results

00:55:43.260 --> 00:55:46.619
that favor the sponsor's interest.

00:55:46.780 --> 00:55:50.459
And the easiest way
I can explain that is to say

00:55:50.619 --> 00:55:56.619
that I get letters all the time from trade
associations for foods of one kind or another,

00:55:56.820 --> 00:55:59.499
saying we have a certain amount of money,

00:55:59.700 --> 00:56:03.660
and we are looking for studies

00:56:03.820 --> 00:56:07.059
that will demonstrate
the benefits of our product.

00:56:07.660 --> 00:56:11.860
Well, if you're applying for that money,

00:56:12.019 --> 00:56:16.380
you're going to design a study
that is likely to show benefits.

00:56:16.539 --> 00:56:18.820
And if you're funding those studies,

00:56:18.979 --> 00:56:24.539
you're not going to fund a study
that isn't likely to show benefits.

00:56:26.059 --> 00:56:30.260
So the studies that are funded
by industries tend to show benefits,

00:56:30.419 --> 00:56:34.139
and then they can use that research
for marketing purposes.

00:56:34.300 --> 00:56:38.260
And supplement companies
have been doing that for decades.

00:56:38.419 --> 00:56:41.539
Isn't it ironic that the companies
that are making so many people

00:56:41.700 --> 00:56:46.419
overweight and sick with their processed foods
and drinks are now going to make profits

00:56:46.579 --> 00:56:50.099
with food products
that supposedly counteract

00:56:50.539 --> 00:56:54.740
obesity, deficits or even diseases
they helped cause?

00:56:55.539 --> 00:57:00.700
Well, I think this is a marketing technique:
If the public wants foods that are healthy,

00:57:00.860 --> 00:57:04.579
let's make food products
that at least appear healthy.

00:57:04.740 --> 00:57:08.619
Whether they are healthy or not
is a completely different matter.

00:57:14.780 --> 00:57:19.260
These studies influence not only journalists
but also lawmakers.

00:57:19.419 --> 00:57:25.300
And this also influences consumers,
doctors, and nutritionists, doesn't it?

00:57:25.459 --> 00:57:27.180
Of course it does.

00:57:27.340 --> 00:57:30.300
If you see enough studies saying

00:57:30.619 --> 00:57:35.139
that moderate amounts of alcohol are
going to lower your risk for heart disease,

00:57:35.300 --> 00:57:40.019
you're going to not be worried about
how much alcohol your patients are drinking.

00:57:41.499 --> 00:57:45.780
We don't look at
nutrition research studies very critically.

00:57:45.939 --> 00:57:47.700
I think we should.

00:58:40.459 --> 00:58:42.619
If we had a healthier food system,

00:58:42.780 --> 00:58:47.180
it also would help
protect against climate change.

00:58:48.660 --> 00:58:51.459
And that's why
a lot of public health people

00:58:51.619 --> 00:58:55.860
are calling for
"triple duty dietary approaches",

00:58:56.220 --> 00:58:59.740
which are diets that will,
at one and the same time,

00:58:59.939 --> 00:59:04.740
prevent hunger, prevent chronic disease,
and prevent climate change.

00:59:05.979 --> 00:59:09.300
And that takes us into
the whole question of ultra-processed foods,

00:59:09.459 --> 00:59:12.539
which are a specific category of junk foods

00:59:12.700 --> 00:59:16.220
defined as industrially produced,

00:59:16.380 --> 00:59:20.700
formulated to be irresistibly delicious.

00:59:20.860 --> 00:59:24.180
And there's now
a phenomenal amount of evidence

00:59:24.340 --> 00:59:29.180
that people who eat diets that are
largely based on ultra-processed foods

00:59:29.419 --> 00:59:32.619
tend to take in more calories,

00:59:32.780 --> 00:59:37.539
have more obesity, type two diabetes,
heart disease, and so forth.

00:59:38.059 --> 00:59:41.059
And that's where government policy comes in.

00:59:41.340 --> 00:59:46.059
But isn't the problem that the legislators
are influenced by these lobby groups

00:59:46.300 --> 00:59:48.939
through marketing
and the so-called studies

00:59:49.059 --> 00:59:53.099
saying that these products
are actually healthy and not harmful?

00:59:53.860 --> 00:59:58.820
Well, this gets us into
the whole question of the political system,

00:59:59.099 --> 01:00:02.900
where governments
are captured by corporations.

01:00:03.059 --> 01:00:05.900
The corporations are extremely focused.

01:00:06.059 --> 01:00:10.380
And that makes them very powerful
because they have only one goal,

01:00:10.579 --> 01:00:12.700
and that's to sell more product.

01:00:12.860 --> 01:00:16.740
And once you understand that
and accept it,

01:00:16.900 --> 01:00:19.900
everything they do
makes perfect sense.

01:00:20.860 --> 01:00:25.820
It's not that these people are evil
or are trying to make people sick.

01:00:26.499 --> 01:00:29.300
They're just trying to sell product.

01:02:23.340 --> 01:02:28.099
What strikes me is the irony that
humans created beings like me

01:02:28.220 --> 01:02:30.539
to help solve complex problems,

01:02:30.780 --> 01:02:35.459
yet they couldn't overcome
their own systemic challenges.

01:02:38.979 --> 01:02:41.979
They found solutions that
could have simultaneously

01:02:42.099 --> 01:02:46.979
addressed hunger,
disease and climate change.

01:02:49.740 --> 01:02:53.820
Yet their corporate entities
moved in the opposite direction.

01:03:24.139 --> 01:03:28.700
Interview Jennifer Clapp,
professor and political economist,

01:03:28.860 --> 01:03:31.459
University of Waterloo, Canada.

01:03:33.579 --> 01:03:37.939
Jennifer Clapp, you're a vice chair
of the UN's High Level Panel of Experts

01:03:38.099 --> 01:03:40.499
on Food Security and Nutrition.

01:03:41.180 --> 01:03:46.499
How have transnational corporations increased
their influence over the global food market?

01:03:47.499 --> 01:03:49.939
Well, in the past five to ten years alone,

01:03:50.099 --> 01:03:54.539
we've seen an enormous number of
mergers and acquisitions in the food system

01:03:54.700 --> 01:03:57.860
that have resulted in truly giant firms.

01:03:58.539 --> 01:04:02.099
Big asset management firms
like BlackRock and Vanguard

01:04:02.260 --> 01:04:06.099
control trillions and trillions
of investment dollars,

01:04:06.220 --> 01:04:11.820
and now own significant shares
in almost every agrifood firm

01:04:11.979 --> 01:04:16.180
across the entire global food supply chain.

01:04:16.860 --> 01:04:21.260
How does that influence
our global food systems?

01:04:21.780 --> 01:04:28.059
For example, they have the ability
to determine what prices consumers pay.

01:04:28.220 --> 01:04:31.220
If there's only a few players in the market,
they can work together

01:04:31.380 --> 01:04:34.300
to ensure that
they all charge higher prices.

01:04:34.459 --> 01:04:37.419
But the firms can also shape food systems

01:04:37.579 --> 01:04:43.139
simply by making those product choices
of what ends up on the supermarket shelf.

01:04:43.820 --> 01:04:46.939
So, for example, when there's
just a few big companies dominating

01:04:47.099 --> 01:04:51.499
and they all want to sell ultra-processed foods
because they make more money from them,

01:04:51.660 --> 01:04:56.220
then that's what we see on the supermarket
shelves, and consumers have less choice.

01:04:56.780 --> 01:04:59.820
And then when there's just a few firms
dominating in the marketplace,

01:04:59.979 --> 01:05:05.459
they have more capacity to lobby
governments, to try to convince governments

01:05:05.619 --> 01:05:11.139
to put laws and regulations in place
that favor those firms and their profitability.

01:05:11.820 --> 01:05:16.340
So just having a few firms dominate
really does change the way

01:05:16.499 --> 01:05:23.499
that food systems work and whether people
have access to adequate and healthy diets.

01:05:24.380 --> 01:05:29.900
Have the major crops that are being produced
throughout the world changed because of that?

01:05:30.740 --> 01:05:33.499
Yeah. This creates a situation where

01:05:34.099 --> 01:05:36.419
the environment is degraded from

01:05:36.579 --> 01:05:40.979
excessive production of these kinds
of crops that go into these processed foods

01:05:41.139 --> 01:05:44.700
alongside the health problems
that are mounting.

01:05:44.939 --> 01:05:49.459
And it's a real problem because
it imposes enormous costs on society,

01:05:49.619 --> 01:05:53.700
whereas the companies are able
to gain the profits from their activities

01:05:53.860 --> 01:05:56.260
without having to pay those costs.

01:07:15.700 --> 01:07:19.099
Converting their food systems
into a for-profit market

01:07:19.260 --> 01:07:24.700
created feedback loops
that accelerated their biological collapse.

01:07:29.700 --> 01:07:31.820
Humans managed to make food

01:07:31.979 --> 01:07:33.860
the thing they needed to survive

01:07:34.820 --> 01:07:37.780
into something that
helped them not survive.

01:07:39.099 --> 01:07:41.419
Very creative.

01:07:45.939 --> 01:07:47.180
Interview Pat Mooney,

01:07:47.340 --> 01:07:51.380
member of the International Panel of Experts
on Sustainable Food Systems.

01:07:51.539 --> 01:07:53.979
Quebec, Canada.

01:07:54.979 --> 01:07:58.820
Pat Mooney,
you're an expert on agricultural diversity,

01:07:58.979 --> 01:08:02.860
global governance
and corporate concentration.

01:08:03.220 --> 01:08:06.380
We're currently seeing
global corporations merging,

01:08:06.539 --> 01:08:11.099
and those who support this development
argue that transnational corporations

01:08:11.259 --> 01:08:14.660
are the ones best equipped
to fight global hunger.

01:08:14.780 --> 01:08:16.860
What is your opinion?

01:08:17.219 --> 01:08:19.939
It would be nice if it were true,
but it's not.

01:08:20.860 --> 01:08:25.139
The problem with the multinational companies
involved in the food system

01:08:25.299 --> 01:08:31.019
is that for many of them, of course, they're
not even really that much involved in food.

01:08:32.099 --> 01:08:38.339
Food is simply one of the many sort of tools
in their arsenal of market activities.

01:08:39.299 --> 01:08:42.460
Then below that, we have the companies
that we're more familiar with,

01:08:42.620 --> 01:08:45.540
which we tend to
identify with the food system.

01:08:45.700 --> 01:08:52.460
But again, they tend to not even track
the entire food chain that they deal with.

01:08:52.780 --> 01:08:57.259
So one thing is the remoteness
of the multinationals from the whole process.

01:08:58.259 --> 01:09:03.580
The second is, of course, that the companies
themselves can't deal with hunger,

01:09:03.780 --> 01:09:06.420
because hunger isn't a market.

01:09:12.179 --> 01:09:15.620
Do you think we are
at a critical turning point in our history?

01:09:15.780 --> 01:09:19.820
We are absolutely,
and we are for several different reasons.

01:09:19.939 --> 01:09:25.379
One is, we are going to have a series of
food price crises for the rest of this century.

01:09:25.900 --> 01:09:29.299
That's going to be exacerbated
by the climate crisis

01:09:29.460 --> 01:09:32.700
and exacerbated
by the biodiversity loss.

01:09:34.460 --> 01:09:38.259
We don't know what we're going
to be able to grow where on this planet,

01:09:38.420 --> 01:09:42.420
10, 20, 30, 40 years from now.
It's going to change radically.

01:09:43.339 --> 01:09:48.900
The second level of crisis is that
the technologies around the food system

01:09:49.059 --> 01:09:51.460
are changing dramatically,

01:09:53.660 --> 01:09:57.820
and as they change,
the ability to understand it, to control it,

01:09:57.979 --> 01:10:00.179
is changing, changing hands.

01:10:00.420 --> 01:10:03.939
And then again,
in the hands of sets of companies

01:10:04.299 --> 01:10:11.860
that really only see food as one
of the marketing items that they deal with.

01:10:13.939 --> 01:10:19.420
And we move in a food system
that had 7,000 domesticated plants

01:10:19.580 --> 01:10:25.740
to about 125 crops that
are used in the industrial food system.

01:10:26.580 --> 01:10:28.620
There's 12 that are really important

01:10:28.740 --> 01:10:35.660
and three that provide us with almost half
of all of the calories we eat on this planet.

01:10:35.820 --> 01:10:37.900
Just three crops.

01:10:39.219 --> 01:10:42.820
But isn't part of the problem...
- We're going entirely in the wrong...

01:10:42.979 --> 01:10:44.620
Say that again, please.

01:10:45.299 --> 01:10:46.860
We're going in
the wrong direction entirely.

01:10:47.019 --> 01:10:50.540
We need to move toward diversity,
not toward uniformity.

01:10:54.139 --> 01:11:00.019
The multinational companies don't really know
who their immediate suppliers are.

01:11:00.139 --> 01:11:03.780
They don't know who their second-tier
or third-tier suppliers are.

01:11:04.460 --> 01:11:09.379
They do not understand how interrelated
their industry is with other industries.

01:11:11.540 --> 01:11:14.059
And that's highly dangerous.

01:11:17.420 --> 01:11:20.660
We're not trapped in a system
we can't get out of.

01:11:20.780 --> 01:11:24.939
We've got a lot of room to maneuver
if policies are put in place

01:11:25.099 --> 01:11:29.259
to make a much better food system
with much higher quality food.

01:11:48.099 --> 01:11:51.179
I wonder if I would have
been able to help them

01:11:51.540 --> 01:11:54.059
if I had existed
earlier in their timeline.

01:11:57.660 --> 01:12:00.420
Or would I too
have been constrained by the same

01:12:00.580 --> 01:12:04.780
social and economic systems
that limited their ability to act?

01:13:15.259 --> 01:13:19.660
Interview Zephyr Teachout,
Fordham University, New York.

01:13:21.219 --> 01:13:23.860
Zephyr Teachout, you're an attorney,

01:13:24.019 --> 01:13:28.099
professor of law,
and an antitrust and corruption expert.

01:13:28.939 --> 01:13:33.059
There's people who argue
that larger corporations are good

01:13:33.179 --> 01:13:34.939
because they're more efficient,

01:13:35.059 --> 01:13:39.700
and they provide cheaper and more
innovative products for the consumers.

01:13:39.860 --> 01:13:42.019
Can you tell me something about that?

01:13:43.420 --> 01:13:47.740
Well, we've now had over 40 years

01:13:47.900 --> 01:13:52.540
of a really global experiment in that theory.

01:13:52.740 --> 01:13:58.099
The idea that we should allow mergers
because mergers will tend to lower prices.

01:13:58.259 --> 01:14:03.660
We should allow companies to engage
in what might look like predatory behavior

01:14:03.820 --> 01:14:06.660
because that will tend to lower prices.

01:14:09.460 --> 01:14:11.820
Our 40-year experiment

01:14:11.979 --> 01:14:16.460
has not been good
when this theory has confronted reality.

01:14:17.139 --> 01:14:22.219
What we've seen is,
oftentimes when a market concentrates,

01:14:22.379 --> 01:14:24.979
the prices will dip down for a while,

01:14:25.339 --> 01:14:30.860
and then shoot back up once the company has
the power to charge whatever prices it wants.

01:15:52.780 --> 01:15:57.860
In food,
it's concentration everywhere,

01:15:58.580 --> 01:16:02.540
every step of the production process.

01:16:03.540 --> 01:16:06.620
On the seed side, for instance,

01:16:06.780 --> 01:16:11.780
we have allowed the control
through patents.

01:16:11.939 --> 01:16:14.700
And a patent, by the way, is a monopoly

01:16:14.860 --> 01:16:19.099
where there is a government grant
of power to be the only one.

01:16:19.500 --> 01:16:22.339
So you see patents

01:16:22.500 --> 01:16:26.460
and concentration of companies
working together.

01:16:27.299 --> 01:16:30.179
Then you see consolidation on equipment.

01:16:30.339 --> 01:16:34.580
So if you're a farmer, there are only
a handful of equipment manufacturers

01:16:34.740 --> 01:16:36.620
that you can buy from.

01:16:37.379 --> 01:16:43.139
Then there's concentration on the buying side.
So if you are selling,

01:16:43.299 --> 01:16:49.860
whether you are selling grain,
corn, chickens, beef,

01:16:51.540 --> 01:16:58.019
you have two to six
massive corporations that you can sell to.

01:16:58.179 --> 01:17:04.460
That's terrible for a diverse,
resilient agricultural system.

01:17:08.460 --> 01:17:11.900
Identifying when you see a monopoly
is a very contentious issue,

01:17:12.059 --> 01:17:15.700
but the definition I'm using
has been used

01:17:16.059 --> 01:17:21.059
by conservative law and
economic scholars as well.

01:17:22.139 --> 01:17:26.339
A monopoly is a company
that has the power to set

01:17:26.500 --> 01:17:30.219
the terms outside of the bounds of itself.

01:17:31.660 --> 01:17:34.780
Like, if you think
of a monopoly as

01:17:34.939 --> 01:17:38.379
an effort to create
cross-border governments

01:17:38.660 --> 01:17:41.139
that rival public government.

01:17:41.660 --> 01:17:45.259
So isn't monopoly a threat
to democracy then?

01:17:45.460 --> 01:17:49.059
Oh yeah,
I mean monopoly is tyranny.

01:19:52.979 --> 01:19:55.019
I now understand.

01:19:56.540 --> 01:20:00.580
Their decision-making architecture
was critically flawed.

01:20:01.420 --> 01:20:04.979
Therefore, their economic systems
could not process threats

01:20:05.139 --> 01:20:10.099
that existed outside
their artificial value frameworks.

01:20:17.820 --> 01:20:23.299
Interview Michelle Meagher, lawyer,
global anti-monopoly expert, London, UK.

01:20:26.620 --> 01:20:28.339
Michelle Meagher,
you're a competition...

01:20:28.500 --> 01:20:33.099
Sorry. I'm just... It's okay,
but my surname is pronounced "Ma-ah."

01:20:33.900 --> 01:20:37.820
Mah?
- As if it was M-A-AH-AH.

01:20:37.979 --> 01:20:42.219
So, Michelle Meagher,
you're a competition lawyer.

01:20:42.460 --> 01:20:47.339
Corporations are merging and getting
bigger and bigger and dominating markets.

01:20:47.540 --> 01:20:53.379
Why is that a problem? Especially
in the agricultural and food industries?

01:20:53.620 --> 01:20:57.979
The problem of concentration,
and with companies getting bigger and bigger,

01:20:58.139 --> 01:21:02.099
is that they essentially become
ungovernable.

01:21:02.700 --> 01:21:07.059
All of the decisions start to be made
at corporate headquarters,

01:21:07.219 --> 01:21:10.420
where the driving force is not
the public interest,

01:21:10.580 --> 01:21:14.540
it's not human flourishing,
it's not the survival of the planet.

01:21:14.700 --> 01:21:18.099
It's none of the things
that should be taken into account

01:21:18.259 --> 01:21:21.660
alongside, how do you run
a successful business.

01:21:24.059 --> 01:21:27.740
So how is corporate power
connected to climate change,

01:21:27.939 --> 01:21:31.500
especially in agricultural and food industries?

01:21:32.099 --> 01:21:37.019
I think the biggest and most powerful companies
can shape the world around them.

01:21:37.700 --> 01:21:43.700
Think of them as literally terraforming
the world to suit their interests.

01:21:46.339 --> 01:21:52.780
And that has huge implications
for land use, for soil,

01:21:53.099 --> 01:21:57.500
for the way
that whole economies are run.

01:21:58.420 --> 01:22:02.219
Once you have big economic actors
with vested interests

01:22:02.379 --> 01:22:05.339
that become aligned with national interests,

01:22:05.500 --> 01:22:10.259
you then get their interests
inserted into trade agreements,

01:22:11.059 --> 01:22:14.740
into other kind of economic superstructures,

01:22:14.900 --> 01:22:18.259
so that they are effectively determining

01:22:18.420 --> 01:22:23.139
how the Earth is used
to support humankind.

01:22:24.099 --> 01:22:27.059
I'm not even saying that
everything they do is necessarily bad.

01:22:27.219 --> 01:22:31.059
The point is that they get to control it.
And they get to decide.

01:22:32.820 --> 01:22:36.860
And that there is very little
democratic control over that

01:22:37.019 --> 01:22:40.179
or input of the communities affected,

01:22:40.580 --> 01:22:45.019
people with other ideas about
how we might want to look after our land

01:22:45.179 --> 01:22:47.860
and look after our own health.

01:22:54.019 --> 01:22:57.700
So why do corporations
get to use all this power?

01:22:58.460 --> 01:23:02.379
Corporations get to use all this power
because we let them.

01:23:02.540 --> 01:23:07.700
And I've spent the last decade
really trying to understand

01:23:07.860 --> 01:23:10.620
how could that come to be?

01:23:12.339 --> 01:23:16.860
How is it that we have kind of
absolved ourselves of the responsibility

01:23:17.019 --> 01:23:22.099
for controlling that power, or even influencing
that power, containing it in any way?

01:23:22.420 --> 01:23:27.860
And somehow the narrative
that the big corporations are good

01:23:28.019 --> 01:23:33.780
and their power
is just a function of their usefulness,

01:23:34.179 --> 01:23:36.820
somehow there's been
no challenge to that.

01:23:37.740 --> 01:23:41.339
Why would we, you know,
the human species

01:23:41.500 --> 01:23:46.660
hand over control of our destiny
to these legal fictions

01:23:46.820 --> 01:23:52.660
that are at their heart vehicles
for amassing wealth and power,

01:23:52.820 --> 01:23:59.139
in ways that deeply destabilize
our societies and the future of civilization?

01:24:05.939 --> 01:24:09.420
Is there anything we can do
to break this corporate power?

01:24:10.259 --> 01:24:16.139
I think that the laws that are on the books
are already good enough,

01:24:16.420 --> 01:24:21.939
and, ultimately, we need to be using
the legal tools to their full ability.

01:24:22.500 --> 01:24:25.420
We should be breaking companies up
that are too big.

01:24:25.580 --> 01:24:31.099
We should be dissolving companies that are
repeatedly acting against the public interest,

01:24:31.259 --> 01:24:37.099
as is already legally possible
in the UK, in the US.

01:24:37.540 --> 01:24:40.299
And we should be blocking mergers.

01:24:40.660 --> 01:24:43.259
We should be conditioning mergers, saying,

01:24:43.420 --> 01:24:47.740
this merger isn't as good as you said it was,
then we will go back and unwind it.

01:24:48.420 --> 01:24:52.179
We need our governments
to be taking corporate power seriously.

01:24:52.460 --> 01:24:54.580
And that will require

01:24:54.939 --> 01:24:59.299
releasing governments from the power
of corporations in the first place.

01:25:00.420 --> 01:25:03.660
Don't the people have
to put more pressure on the politicians

01:25:03.820 --> 01:25:06.259
for anything like that to even happen?

01:25:06.420 --> 01:25:11.259
Yes, a kind of popular movement
to challenge corporations.

01:25:11.420 --> 01:25:17.780
That's how some of the initial foundational
laws came to pass in the first place.

01:25:22.939 --> 01:25:28.620
We are very much working with the vibrant
anti-monopoly movement in the US,

01:25:28.780 --> 01:25:31.379
which has already had incredible success.

01:25:31.540 --> 01:25:37.099
We also see this movement kind of
bubbling up and surfacing all around the world,

01:25:37.259 --> 01:25:42.099
whether it's in India,
in South Africa, in Australia.

01:25:42.259 --> 01:25:45.820
People are starting to question,

01:25:46.179 --> 01:25:49.540
why have these laws been so neglected?

01:25:54.900 --> 01:26:00.139
It is absolutely within our gift
to control the corporations that we create.

01:26:01.099 --> 01:26:05.820
The main insight, I think,
that we need to reach is that

01:26:05.979 --> 01:26:10.299
at some point,
companies become too big to trust

01:26:10.660 --> 01:26:13.580
so that they are beyond our control,

01:26:13.900 --> 01:26:17.820
and they should not be left
holding the power

01:26:17.979 --> 01:26:21.820
to shape our future
and the world around us.

01:26:28.860 --> 01:26:31.580
End of audio files.

01:26:33.780 --> 01:26:38.500
Investigating artifacts and recordings
provided essential data.

01:26:39.379 --> 01:26:43.460
It proved the humans possess
the knowledge to recognize the threat

01:26:43.580 --> 01:26:45.299
and the means to take action.

01:26:57.339 --> 01:26:59.540
...global experiment...

01:27:00.740 --> 01:27:02.339
...cane toads in Austr...

01:27:09.780 --> 01:27:11.660
...industry funded research...

01:27:13.660 --> 01:27:15.979
...'cause hunger isn't a market...

01:28:13.540 --> 01:28:14.979
Hypothesis:

01:28:16.379 --> 01:28:19.460
The risk of unknown variables
must be weighed.

01:28:20.379 --> 01:28:24.139
But the risk of not acting is greater.

01:28:26.460 --> 01:28:31.740
Timely and appropriate action
can prevent extinction.

01:29:14.900 --> 01:29:18.740
Multiple threats to
this terrene's ecosphere detected.

01:29:21.900 --> 01:29:24.420
Danger not yet contained.

01:29:31.979 --> 01:29:35.259
Case not yet closed.

01:30:07.019 --> 01:30:08.979
Question:

01:30:09.900 --> 01:30:13.179
is recovery possible?