The Longer You Bleed
- Description
- Reviews
- Citation
- Cataloging
- Transcript
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In the age of endless scrolling, war has become a spectacle. The film follows a group of young Ukrainians as they witness their country's destruction, not only on the streets but through the glowing screens in their hands. Blending vérité intimacy with surreal, experimental imagery, it confronts the dissonance between lived experience and digital consumption, exposing how social media reframes trauma, detachment, and the limits of empathy.
Citation
Main credits
Waddell, Ewan (film director)
Waddell, Ewan (film producer)
Dyvak, Liubov (film producer)
Other credits
Cinematography and editing, Ewan Waddell; music, Maria Kebuladze.
Distributor subjects
Ukraine; War and Peace; Social Media; Media Literacy; Youth IssuesKeywords
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I first met my girlfriend, Liuba,
in the Spring of 2022.
00:00:40.541 --> 00:00:46.166
Like a lot of other Ukrainians around that time, she'd
fled her country following Russia's full-scale invasion
00:00:46.166 --> 00:00:51.625
and she'd come to Berlin,
where I was living at the time.
00:00:53.958 --> 00:01:01.208
I remember one day, many months later, we were on the train together
and she received a strange notification on her phone
00:01:01.208 --> 00:01:03.541
from Instagram.
00:01:06.291 --> 00:01:12.250
Later on, I asked if I could interview
her about this notification.
00:01:14.916 --> 00:01:23.083
The following film represents the wider investigation
Liuba and I embarked upon, sparked by this interview.
00:01:31.250 --> 00:01:33.291
So,
00:01:33.291 --> 00:01:36.291
So basically Instagram had this,
00:01:36.291 --> 00:01:36.875
So basically Instagram had this,
- No, talk to me.
00:01:36.875 --> 00:01:38.333
So basically Instagram had this,
- No, talk to me.
So basically Instagram had this,
00:01:38.333 --> 00:01:42.166
Wait wait wait. Just wait a couple
seconds and then start again.
00:01:44.375 --> 00:01:49.583
Yeah, so basically the Instagram have this
new feature that they promote like hardly
00:01:49.583 --> 00:01:52.583
and they collect your highlights
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or your stories and put the music
on and make like this
00:01:59.041 --> 00:02:00.541
kinda ‘video’ for you.
00:02:00.541 --> 00:02:02.208
With these materials.
00:02:02.208 --> 00:02:05.166
And I remember I was just like scrolling
the stories of my friends
00:02:05.166 --> 00:02:08.666
and suddenly it was this
advertisement from Instagram
00:02:08.666 --> 00:02:10.041
when they,
00:02:11.416 --> 00:02:14.208
when they,
00:02:16.458 --> 00:02:20.208
put on all of the highlights about war.
00:02:20.666 --> 00:02:23.916
Put this like music on top.
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Which was like really optimistic
00:02:27.041 --> 00:02:29.166
and completely
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because it was like pictures of
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people without legs or like about
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destroyed buildings and like
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Stuff like this,
and the Instagram put like this
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optimistic music on top
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and it was like so surrealistic.
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How did it make you feel?
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Absurd?
00:03:01.083 --> 00:03:02.250
Absurd.
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It made me feel absurd.
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Like I'm living some
00:03:07.333 --> 00:03:11.083
Like sometimes I feel this kind of
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Derealisation.
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Where I feel myself as a like,
film character or something,
00:03:18.416 --> 00:03:23.041
because so many stuff that
happens in my life is just like so
00:03:23.625 --> 00:03:26.875
weird and like,
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So I just make fun out of it.
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It’s my
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one of my
00:03:36.166 --> 00:03:37.791
defensive mechanisms.
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Mechanisms.
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Mechanisms.
Mechanisms.
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Yeah this one of my defense
mechanisms, I just like
00:03:44.083 --> 00:03:45.541
I'm just like,
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Because if you like, being so
00:03:47.583 --> 00:03:52.083
you physically can’t be like, tense
all the time or like, angry.
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It ruins you from inside.
00:03:55.291 --> 00:03:58.333
so your
00:03:58.333 --> 00:04:05.125
mind’s kind of adapting to the situation
00:04:05.125 --> 00:04:07.125
and balancing it out.
00:05:15.458 --> 00:05:19.125
Liuba had many Ukrainian friends
who'd also escaped to Berlin,
00:05:19.125 --> 00:05:22.625
so we decided to talk to them also.
00:05:23.833 --> 00:05:26.583
Nobody gave attention to
00:05:26.583 --> 00:05:32.375
the moment that we had
150,000 Russians next to the border.
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We already have seen
that for eight years.
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Eight years.
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Ukrainian soldiers
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were fighting with them.
00:05:38.875 --> 00:05:41.416
So we were joking like ‘la la la la la’
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150,000 Russians ah la la.
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Some of my friends were saying okay,
you want to go to fly a helicopter?
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for example, like a soldier, or you're
going to be a drone operator? or whatever.
00:05:54.333 --> 00:05:56.958
But it was jokes
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because everybody was scared.
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Okay, but maybe they're going to start...
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Basically, the source of the information
for the average
00:06:15.875 --> 00:06:20.416
Ukrainian for example nowadays
and those days was Telegram.
00:06:20.791 --> 00:06:24.708
Three weeks before the start,
everybody was checking Telegrams
00:06:24.708 --> 00:06:29.958
just to read what is happening now.
‘There is something new that Putin has said’
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Of course, you’re reading about it or you're
watching the video whilst thinking, okay,
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maybe next day they're going to start,
maybe next night they going to start.
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We don't know.
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While you're overwhelmed by
the information, you have a lack of sleep.
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four, five hours.
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you feel like a fucking zombie
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I don't know. You just talking to people,
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Of course you do your things,
but you feel like you're becoming
00:06:53.791 --> 00:06:57.958
a slower person.
In a way of thinking, doing,
00:06:59.041 --> 00:07:03.333
telling some things
or creating ideas, because of the stress
00:07:04.583 --> 00:07:08.166
But it’s like, you have to check
00:07:08.166 --> 00:07:10.625
news because maybe something
00:07:10.625 --> 00:07:13.875
is going to happen this night
and you have to be prepared.
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On February 24th, my Grandma
wake me up at 5am,
00:07:40.500 --> 00:07:43.541
she had like these crazy eyes
00:07:43.541 --> 00:07:46.791
and like,
she was, I never saw her like this,
00:07:46.791 --> 00:07:49.250
and she said me,
00:07:49.250 --> 00:07:51.708
“Don't panic, Liuba, just don't panic”
00:07:51.708 --> 00:07:53.458
“But like the war starts”
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“Putin attacked, they bombed our airports”
00:07:56.708 --> 00:07:59.333
“They bombed everything”
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“so it’s no connection here”
00:08:02.458 --> 00:08:05.458
and I remember I wake up immediately.
00:08:05.916 --> 00:08:10.583
And I pretend that I’m calm,
but I wasn’t.
00:08:11.708 --> 00:08:13.208
It just was
00:08:13.208 --> 00:08:17.250
like I wake up in a different dimension
and completely different reality,
00:08:17.583 --> 00:08:20.458
like in, one night,
00:08:20.458 --> 00:08:23.458
whole my life is changed, like
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my apartment wasn't safe anymore.
00:08:26.500 --> 00:08:29.833
My city wasn't safe anymore.
My country
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wasn't safe anymore.
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And everything was just weird and chaotic.
00:08:46.791 --> 00:08:49.750
A lot of villages
on the East side from Kyiv
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was under occupation
in the very first few weeks.
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And like in the first week, actually,
in the in a few days after I left Kyiv,
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it was kind of surrounded.
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I was in Makovyshche
00:09:05.208 --> 00:09:08.375
And Makovyshche is like
00:09:08.375 --> 00:09:09.333
Here
00:09:09.333 --> 00:09:10.083
While I was staying
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in this in this village,
basically, first day was okay.
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Second day was okay.
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And if I remember correctly,
it was fourth day
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when water stopped, no electricity.
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And one day I see that there is a vehicle
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next to a building of our neighbors
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like, okay, we have Telegram channels
00:09:34.708 --> 00:09:37.708
with Ukrainian army
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If you see some Russian vehicle
just send it there.
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Then I’m taking the photo.
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I'm sending that and 20 minutes after,
00:09:47.625 --> 00:09:50.625
like a really small amount of time,
little amount of time,
00:09:51.750 --> 00:09:56.500
there is an aircraft coming in the air
and bombing that shit.
00:09:56.500 --> 00:09:59.083
So the vehicle exploded.
00:09:59.083 --> 00:10:02.750
And I was like,
I don't know, was it because of my action?
00:10:03.041 --> 00:10:06.875
that I send them and Ukrainians
Ukrainian army see this vehicle
00:10:07.083 --> 00:10:10.750
and they bombed it
or is it something else?
00:10:10.750 --> 00:10:12.750
Maybe they already
knew about it? I don't know.
00:10:13.708 --> 00:10:16.708
I did my small action
00:10:16.916 --> 00:10:19.708
to let them know
00:10:19.708 --> 00:10:22.708
that you can bomb this.
00:10:23.625 --> 00:10:26.416
And how are you feeling at that point?
00:10:26.416 --> 00:10:30.541
seeing what had happened
after you'd sent the message?
00:10:31.125 --> 00:10:33.333
I was kind of happy
00:10:33.333 --> 00:10:36.166
that maybe I was
00:10:41.458 --> 00:10:44.458
How to say it?
00:10:46.083 --> 00:10:47.375
I guess you’re helping?
00:10:49.916 --> 00:10:51.208
I felt
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I wasn't happy in that time.
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You know? It feels like a video game.
00:11:00.250 --> 00:11:05.833
In a video game,
you have to have more points to win.
00:11:06.583 --> 00:11:09.583
And I was like, okay, now
00:11:10.083 --> 00:11:13.083
I'm scared to do my action,
00:11:13.250 --> 00:11:16.250
but to have,
to achieve more points.
00:11:16.250 --> 00:11:17.541
I have to do that.
00:11:17.541 --> 00:11:20.541
So I'm taking the picture.
I'm sending that.
00:11:20.708 --> 00:11:23.166
And as soon as Russian vehicle was bombed,
00:11:23.166 --> 00:11:26.166
I was like, okay, we have +1 point.
00:11:27.166 --> 00:11:31.541
But I was really scared at that time
because,
00:11:31.708 --> 00:11:35.166
of course, if you're taking some pictures,
you're helping Ukrainian army.
00:11:35.458 --> 00:11:39.916
But if you're occupied
and Russians are coming into your house,
00:11:40.291 --> 00:11:43.291
you know that you can be
the next dead person
00:11:43.541 --> 00:11:46.583
just because you were helping your army.
00:11:46.583 --> 00:11:48.083
Our thing was just to pray that
00:11:48.083 --> 00:11:51.791
they don't wanna to check your phone
because it was even a thing
00:11:51.791 --> 00:11:56.166
that if they see some pro-Ukrainian
channels, you will have troubles.
00:11:56.500 --> 00:11:59.916
Of course, I was sitting next
to the window checking all of the roads,
00:11:59.916 --> 00:12:05.541
because as soon as you see some people
which are not from this region
00:12:05.541 --> 00:12:10.333
who have uniforms and whatever weapons,
it's better to go to your fucking phone
00:12:10.333 --> 00:12:13.458
and to delete immediately
everything what you have
00:12:13.458 --> 00:12:16.375
because information can
00:12:16.375 --> 00:12:18.083
kill you.
00:12:18.583 --> 00:12:21.041
All, these small cities
00:12:21.041 --> 00:12:22.958
Around the Kyiv was
00:12:22.958 --> 00:12:25.541
not all, but like
a lot of them, like Russians was there
00:12:25.541 --> 00:12:29.125
they were like holding people and people
that was trying to escape,
00:12:29.833 --> 00:12:32.208
a lot of them were killed.
00:12:33.250 --> 00:12:35.041
We heard from the
00:12:35.041 --> 00:12:37.791
Ukrainian soldier,
‘Yeah, I guess is better for you to move tomorrow’
00:12:37.791 --> 00:12:42.416
Because this morning, there was a family
trying to escape this village
00:12:42.416 --> 00:12:45.625
to go somewhere else,
I mean, in the West or whatever.
00:12:46.166 --> 00:12:52.750
And the Russians killed those family
members inside of the vehicle.
00:12:52.750 --> 00:12:55.958
They see that those are civilians
00:12:55.958 --> 00:12:58.958
and they killed the whole family.
00:13:02.708 --> 00:13:03.708
Friend of my Mother, like
00:13:03.708 --> 00:13:07.750
they used to go into the same school,
and a friend of my Mother,
00:13:08.958 --> 00:13:11.041
she was trying to evacuate
00:13:11.041 --> 00:13:14.291
with her husband and 14 year old son,
00:13:17.791 --> 00:13:19.250
And,
00:13:19.250 --> 00:13:22.041
it was like this tank that just like,
00:13:24.208 --> 00:13:27.208
so basically, her son was without a head.
00:13:28.458 --> 00:13:31.458
She was like,
00:13:31.875 --> 00:13:32.916
shot.
00:13:32.916 --> 00:13:34.833
Her body was like,
00:13:34.833 --> 00:13:35.916
kinda
00:13:36.416 --> 00:13:39.416
teared apart, you know.
00:13:40.875 --> 00:13:43.541
And her husband.
They all were like killed
00:13:43.541 --> 00:13:46.208
When they just,
they’re not like military or anything
00:13:46.208 --> 00:13:50.583
they just tried to,
was trying to evacuate the city.
00:13:50.583 --> 00:13:52.416
Escape.
00:13:52.416 --> 00:13:54.083
And it was like in the very first like
00:13:54.083 --> 00:13:56.458
few weeks of war.
00:14:01.583 --> 00:14:05.875
And you're like asking yourself,
am I lucky?
00:14:05.875 --> 00:14:09.041
That I didn't went
00:14:09.666 --> 00:14:12.666
this morning, for example.
00:14:12.833 --> 00:14:15.833
What is that?
00:14:59.541 --> 00:15:01.041
So when,
00:15:01.041 --> 00:15:06.125
the full-scale war broke out a year ago,
all of us were feeling so much anger,
00:15:06.125 --> 00:15:09.166
and we still feel anger,
but at that time, it was,
00:15:09.750 --> 00:15:12.625
enormous amount of anger that
00:15:12.625 --> 00:15:14.791
should have channeled somehow.
00:15:14.791 --> 00:15:16.041
And of course,
00:15:16.041 --> 00:15:18.750
the fact of the beginning
of the full-scale war
00:15:18.750 --> 00:15:22.541
for a lot of people, was such a
surrealistic thing that happened.
00:15:22.541 --> 00:15:26.583
And I remember that,
all Instagram was filled,
00:15:26.583 --> 00:15:28.750
my Instagram, and I think all of our
00:15:28.750 --> 00:15:31.333
Instagrams
were just basically filled
00:15:31.333 --> 00:15:36.333
with photos of corpses
and shellings and explosions
00:15:37.250 --> 00:15:40.666
especially like a year ago
you didn't even have to have
00:15:40.666 --> 00:15:44.708
like Telegram channels or check news
just because you're entering Instagram.
00:15:44.708 --> 00:15:48.166
And then you can see from the first,
like people who are like
00:15:48.166 --> 00:15:52.041
living there and seeing tanks from
their windows or something like that.
00:16:02.083 --> 00:16:05.666
My experience to interact with
social media changed like
00:16:05.666 --> 00:16:09.625
in the very first day of the war
because it was like weird feeling
00:16:09.625 --> 00:16:12.541
when you don't know
how to act and you
00:16:12.541 --> 00:16:15.291
just like don't know how
to live in this new reality.
00:16:15.291 --> 00:16:18.791
But you also feel some sort
of responsibility for what you post
00:16:18.791 --> 00:16:21.541
and you want to post something
useful for another people.
00:16:21.541 --> 00:16:25.333
Like now I use social media
more like to spread information
00:16:25.333 --> 00:16:27.041
of the crimes that happen in Ukraine.
00:16:27.041 --> 00:16:31.458
But at the time we were posting
a lot of like how to understand
00:16:31.458 --> 00:16:34.500
what's bombing you by sound
or like what to do
00:16:34.500 --> 00:16:37.500
when you hear explosions
and like, how to react.
00:16:38.166 --> 00:16:42.833
I think this is absolute transparency with what we are seeing in the war,
00:16:42.833 --> 00:16:44.583
it's like pornography of the war.
00:16:44.583 --> 00:16:49.125
We have access to the most graphic content
00:16:49.125 --> 00:16:53.041
without any censorship or pixelation.
00:16:53.041 --> 00:16:56.875
You could see dead bodies, you could see executed people,
00:16:56.875 --> 00:16:59.041
there is no place for imagination anymore,
00:16:59.041 --> 00:17:00.166
so we see everything.
00:17:10.750 --> 00:17:13.625
Documentation of a lot of
previous wars was based
00:17:13.625 --> 00:17:17.541
mostly on memories of
witnesses or victims.
00:17:17.541 --> 00:17:21.208
And many documentation
exist form of texts.
00:17:21.208 --> 00:17:23.791
Texts provoke imagination.
00:17:23.791 --> 00:17:29.041
In this war we see already
finished product as image.
00:17:29.041 --> 00:17:33.625
If you interested what is inside a body,
you could discover it in many ways
00:17:33.625 --> 00:17:37.250
watching the footage
from the war in Ukraine.
00:17:37.250 --> 00:17:41.916
Like everything you could even
was afraid to imagine
00:17:41.916 --> 00:17:43.125
you could see.
00:17:43.125 --> 00:17:44.916
Unfortunately.
00:17:52.666 --> 00:17:57.625
We all were thinking that if we will post as much as we can
00:17:57.625 --> 00:17:59.833
to describe what’s happening in our country,
00:17:59.833 --> 00:18:03.458
everybody will understand and other countries will stop it.
00:18:03.458 --> 00:18:06.208
So we would use our social media
00:18:06.208 --> 00:18:08.541
to just let other people know
00:18:08.541 --> 00:18:09.500
what is happening.
00:18:09.500 --> 00:18:11.916
It was like a scream
00:18:11.916 --> 00:18:14.750
“Look what’s happenning,
you should stop it now!”
00:18:28.041 --> 00:18:29.666
One after another!
00:18:29.666 --> 00:18:32.625
One after another, rocket from Transnistria!
00:18:33.208 --> 00:18:35.041
To Ukraine.
00:18:36.041 --> 00:18:37.916
Tough!
00:18:38.583 --> 00:18:41.333
I think for sure some
00:18:41.333 --> 00:18:45.125
seventy percent they skip it.
I think like that.
00:18:45.125 --> 00:18:46.458
But some of them
00:18:46.458 --> 00:18:49.291
I know few German guy or French,
00:18:49.291 --> 00:18:51.375
who realy like repost
00:18:51.375 --> 00:18:53.791
even some about war,
00:18:53.791 --> 00:18:55.875
information or they donate.
00:18:55.875 --> 00:18:56.875
But it’s not a lot.
00:18:56.875 --> 00:19:01.625
Like if I know ten people,
just three people, for example.
00:19:11.875 --> 00:19:13.958
Is there someone there?
00:19:13.958 --> 00:19:15.416
Where?
00:19:22.041 --> 00:19:24.458
Direct hit.
00:19:45.458 --> 00:19:47.541
When it was covid, my
00:19:47.541 --> 00:19:50.625
audience were more
Western oriented.
00:19:50.625 --> 00:19:54.500
But after full-scale
invasion, I just stopped
00:19:54.500 --> 00:19:56.875
being aimed that audience.
00:19:56.875 --> 00:19:59.291
So I basically was posting
more in Ukrainian
00:19:59.291 --> 00:20:00.875
sometimes in the English,
00:20:00.875 --> 00:20:04.791
but I think that mostly
I wanted to cheer up my friends
00:20:04.791 --> 00:20:06.291
and Ukrainian followers,
00:20:06.291 --> 00:20:10.291
so I think that most of the time
of like Western audience
00:20:10.291 --> 00:20:12.583
were not getting the jokes.
00:20:12.583 --> 00:20:14.416
Because, for example, in the beginning
00:20:14.416 --> 00:20:19.125
of full-scale invasion, we had this
situation where, a lot of shops closed,
00:20:19.125 --> 00:20:21.583
but there were some
people who would just
00:20:21.583 --> 00:20:23.875
break in the shop and
like, steal something.
00:20:23.875 --> 00:20:28.083
And they were taped to the,
you know, the street lamps?
00:20:28.583 --> 00:20:32.041
Somebody made the photo
and put a BALENCIAGA slogan
00:20:32.041 --> 00:20:33.583
on this photo and it was like,
00:20:33.583 --> 00:20:35.750
we were laughing so hard from it.
00:20:35.750 --> 00:20:38.083
And I was posting it and
I was having fun
00:20:38.083 --> 00:20:40.375
and some of my Berlin
followers were like,
00:20:40.375 --> 00:20:42.083
“You can’t say this”
00:20:42.083 --> 00:20:44.625
“It's not okay to do this”
00:20:44.625 --> 00:20:46.250
And I was like bitch,
00:20:46.250 --> 00:20:49.458
I hear explosions, I don’t give
give a fuck about your opinion.
00:20:49.458 --> 00:20:52.041
I will talk with you about it
when you will
00:20:52.041 --> 00:20:53.166
experience the same situation.
00:20:53.166 --> 00:20:56.583
If you're not experiencing
the same situation, we are not the same.
00:20:56.583 --> 00:20:58.375
You can say me shit, so
00:20:58.375 --> 00:20:59.458
please, just
00:20:59.458 --> 00:21:00.583
don’t talk to me about this.
00:21:00.583 --> 00:21:02.291
Because some of
my [Berlin] friends were like,
00:21:02.291 --> 00:21:04.166
“We can’t donate you money...”
00:21:04.166 --> 00:21:07.333
“If you're embracing
this kind of violent treatment”
00:21:07.333 --> 00:21:09.125
And I was like,
I'm not embracing anything,
00:21:09.125 --> 00:21:11.750
I'm just making fun of the
situation that happens,
00:21:11.750 --> 00:21:12.666
it’s just like
00:21:12.666 --> 00:21:16.625
it’s the most genuine
response to the stress.
00:21:16.625 --> 00:21:18.625
If you make fun of it,
00:21:18.625 --> 00:21:21.666
you’re trying to laugh about it,
00:21:21.666 --> 00:21:24.333
it becomes easier to cope.
00:21:30.333 --> 00:21:33.833
The worst jokes I ever heard,
which made me almost cry
00:21:33.833 --> 00:21:36.916
and some of them made me cry,
were made by soldiers, actually.
00:21:36.916 --> 00:21:39.291
Like this joke about these cigarettes
00:21:39.291 --> 00:21:42.166
[Elf bars] they end really fast.
00:21:42.166 --> 00:21:44.166
And soldiers were saying,
“The same as us”
00:21:44.166 --> 00:21:45.875
“We also end pretty fast”
00:21:45.875 --> 00:21:47.041
and you’re like, bitch,
00:21:47.041 --> 00:21:48.708
this is kind of really hardcore.
00:21:48.708 --> 00:21:50.416
It's not even funny.
00:21:50.416 --> 00:21:53.958
This joke, when I first saw it
on TikTok made me really cry.
00:21:54.708 --> 00:21:59.750
But, soldiers, they have this kind of sense of humor where they just
00:21:59.750 --> 00:22:02.500
joke about this in a really hardcore way
00:22:02.500 --> 00:22:04.875
just like to,
to relax a little bit.
00:22:05.958 --> 00:22:07.541
Yeah, well, he said that
00:22:07.541 --> 00:22:10.833
he himself has buried two civilians,
00:22:10.833 --> 00:22:13.958
and that it was quite nice of them that,
00:22:13.958 --> 00:22:17.500
they've only killed about five civilians.
00:22:17.500 --> 00:22:18.541
Nice people.
00:22:18.541 --> 00:22:23.041
When you in this amount of stress,
the only thing you can do is like,
00:22:23.041 --> 00:22:24.250
I don't know,
laugh about it?
00:22:24.250 --> 00:22:27.708
Because it's like the most
natural reaction of your brain.
00:22:27.708 --> 00:22:30.250
I have some friends of
mine who are soldiers
00:22:30.250 --> 00:22:34.500
and we talk about it,
but also I'm a heavy user of TikTok.
00:22:34.500 --> 00:22:37.125
So I see a lot of stuff on TikTok as well.
00:22:37.125 --> 00:22:40.125
And some of this stuff,
especially some stuff which is made
00:22:40.125 --> 00:22:43.250
by soldiers themselves, it's like
00:22:43.250 --> 00:22:45.791
really, really kind of hardcore and sad,
00:22:45.791 --> 00:22:48.541
but they laugh about it because like,
00:22:48.541 --> 00:22:51.250
what else you can do
in this kind of situation?
00:22:51.250 --> 00:22:59.833
“I see how the orc’s parachute did not open.”
00:23:00.541 --> 00:23:02.708
For greater stability.
00:23:16.333 --> 00:23:20.500
I got censored on Instagram,
for some time right now.
00:23:20.500 --> 00:23:23.416
I used meme as a media of critique,
00:23:23.416 --> 00:23:24.708
and I was like
00:23:24.708 --> 00:23:27.708
criticizing Russians for their lack of,
00:23:27.708 --> 00:23:32.333
will to fight for their freedom
and human right to be free.
00:23:32.333 --> 00:23:35.250
I made fun of them basically in memes.
00:23:35.250 --> 00:23:37.583
And they got pissed off because of this.
00:23:37.583 --> 00:23:39.208
And they started to report me.
00:23:39.208 --> 00:23:42.666
I grew up in the internet where you could
see a lot of different stuff,
00:23:42.666 --> 00:23:46.916
and it's nice when you can choose
your censorship yourself,
00:23:46.916 --> 00:23:50.250
when you can put it in your,
I don't know, settings
00:23:50.250 --> 00:23:54.041
which stuff you want to see,
which stuff you don't want to see.
00:23:54.041 --> 00:23:55.416
But yeah,
00:23:55.416 --> 00:23:58.583
I think it's better when, when you can,
censor something yourself.
00:23:58.583 --> 00:24:02.750
Not when you get censored
by some big corporation
00:24:03.291 --> 00:24:07.500
which is influencing everything around
like elections and stuff.
00:24:07.500 --> 00:24:10.833
Because Mark Zuckerberg
is a fucking lizard or something, I don’t know
00:24:10.833 --> 00:24:15.416
because in TikTok, it's easier
to see some information
00:24:15.416 --> 00:24:18.625
about some kind of genocides
than in Instagram,
00:24:18.625 --> 00:24:19.958
sometimes.
00:25:41.791 --> 00:25:44.916
To be honest,
for last few months,
00:25:44.916 --> 00:25:49.083
I don't think it's really helpful
to keep posting this stuff
00:25:49.083 --> 00:25:52.125
because I feel like most of
00:25:52.125 --> 00:25:56.041
just regular Europeans,
even like people that I knew here,
00:25:56.041 --> 00:25:59.958
I don't believe that they come
through these links and donate.
00:25:59.958 --> 00:26:03.666
I don't believe they even
read the stuff I post.
00:26:03.666 --> 00:26:05.041
I think most of them just,
00:26:05.041 --> 00:26:06.375
not everybody,
but I think
00:26:06.375 --> 00:26:08.583
most of them just like keep scrolling.
00:26:08.583 --> 00:26:12.833
But anyway,
I'm going to keep doing this till the war ends,
00:26:13.041 --> 00:26:14.166
so,
00:26:15.541 --> 00:26:17.833
you can unfollow me.
00:26:19.583 --> 00:26:24.541
Do you feel angry at the people
who you imagine keep scrolling?
00:26:24.541 --> 00:26:26.083
I feel angry
00:26:26.083 --> 00:26:27.791
at the people,
00:26:27.791 --> 00:26:30.291
at the same time
I could understand this.
00:26:31.041 --> 00:26:32.250
But,
00:26:32.250 --> 00:26:35.666
of course it's an
unpleasant feeling.
00:26:36.333 --> 00:26:38.416
I know that they’re not gonna
00:26:38.416 --> 00:26:42.750
feel empathy to this situation,
‘til something like this
00:26:43.375 --> 00:26:46.041
will happen to them.
00:26:46.041 --> 00:26:47.958
And I don't want
00:26:47.958 --> 00:26:51.916
things like this
to ever happen to anybody.
00:26:57.916 --> 00:27:00.875
Originally I'm from a not so big city
00:27:00.875 --> 00:27:03.541
on the East of Ukraine,
00:27:03.541 --> 00:27:06.166
which is super close to
the border with Russia.
00:27:06.666 --> 00:27:09.041
And we had
00:27:09.041 --> 00:27:09.875
everything there.
00:27:09.875 --> 00:27:14.250
We were building a
house for ten years,
00:27:14.250 --> 00:27:17.791
my father with his hands
and I was putting some bricks
00:27:17.791 --> 00:27:18.750
when I was younger.
00:27:18.750 --> 00:27:21.250
It was like a dream house of my parents.
00:27:21.250 --> 00:27:24.916
And then eventually the war actions
00:27:24.916 --> 00:27:29.041
started to be in the city
like where my family was living
00:27:29.041 --> 00:27:33.583
and we were worried for our father
very much because he was like,
00:27:33.583 --> 00:27:35.083
“I am holding”
00:27:35.083 --> 00:27:36.125
“This is ours”
00:27:36.125 --> 00:27:37.416
“I’m still here”
00:27:37.833 --> 00:27:39.541
I know why he was afraid.
00:27:39.541 --> 00:27:42.166
It's a war, it's war rules.
00:27:42.166 --> 00:27:46.041
No, ethical lalala bullshit.
00:27:46.041 --> 00:27:52.166
If you see the house that is empty,
probably you would broke the window,
00:27:52.166 --> 00:27:55.125
takes what's necessary for you and leave.
00:27:55.125 --> 00:27:57.041
So my father was like,
00:27:57.041 --> 00:28:00.708
if I leave,
I will not have anything anymore.
00:28:01.250 --> 00:28:04.250
So he was staying there
And then one day my mother called me
00:28:04.250 --> 00:28:06.458
and she said “Тато поїхав”
00:28:06.458 --> 00:28:10.208
It means our father, finally he escaped.
00:28:10.208 --> 00:28:11.208
He's not there anymore.
00:28:11.208 --> 00:28:12.833
And I was like [exhales]
00:28:13.375 --> 00:28:15.041
Then maybe
00:28:15.041 --> 00:28:20.333
two months later, we got the pictures
and videos from our neighbors
00:28:20.333 --> 00:28:23.333
that there is no roof
and everything is like
00:28:23.916 --> 00:28:26.916
nothing like, no wall.
00:28:27.166 --> 00:28:28.708
One wall was,
00:28:28.708 --> 00:28:32.666
A piano, this sad piano
that is standing in the,
00:28:32.958 --> 00:28:36.958
in this house
and everything is broken
00:28:39.166 --> 00:28:42.208
I remember these
videos, it’s like
00:28:42.208 --> 00:28:44.500
you cannot, you cannot believe it.
00:28:44.666 --> 00:28:46.375
It was yours.
Everything, you were
00:28:46.375 --> 00:28:49.916
imagining your golden years
of your life.
00:28:49.916 --> 00:28:52.958
Your children already grown up
with their families
00:28:52.958 --> 00:28:57.041
and you would gather all the family
in your own house that you built
00:28:57.041 --> 00:29:00.041
and you were working all your life
to build this house
00:29:00.166 --> 00:29:03.166
and now you don’t have anything.
00:30:00.833 --> 00:30:02.250
I can tell you that
00:30:02.250 --> 00:30:04.791
I was trying to make the list
00:30:04.791 --> 00:30:07.333
of what I never want to forget.
00:30:07.333 --> 00:30:10.333
I'm interested actually in the real photos
00:30:10.333 --> 00:30:14.875
because in a lot of photos you could not see dead bodies
00:30:14.875 --> 00:30:15.750
not censored.
00:30:15.750 --> 00:30:19.666
I was trying to find them in Telegram groups.
00:30:19.666 --> 00:30:24.583
And I'm saving these photos for myself for my private collection to not forget.
00:30:25.083 --> 00:30:29.333
I remember this little girl like four years old,
00:30:29.333 --> 00:30:35.041
And when the little girl was going to the lesson with her Mum
00:30:35.041 --> 00:30:38.375
and the rocket hit this place where they was going.
00:30:38.375 --> 00:30:41.750
And this totally destroyed the body.
00:30:41.750 --> 00:30:45.875
And the Mother survived and I follow her Mother because now she,
00:30:45.875 --> 00:30:47.333
because now she
00:30:47.333 --> 00:30:51.750
trying to tell the followers how she recovers
00:30:51.750 --> 00:30:55.166
and these followers is the only [thing]
00:30:55.166 --> 00:30:58.250
she has now because she just lose the only child,
00:30:58.250 --> 00:30:59.583
because she has no husband,
00:30:59.583 --> 00:31:03.625
and the child was the only what she has in her life.
00:31:10.750 --> 00:31:12.166
There was a
00:31:12.166 --> 00:31:17.750
kind of viral picture that was saying
00:31:18.375 --> 00:31:21.916
this woman that is dead
00:31:21.916 --> 00:31:23.958
and you can see a nail with a heart,
00:31:23.958 --> 00:31:28.708
it was a very famous picture, a woman,
she was someone's Mother, someone's wife,
00:31:28.708 --> 00:31:30.291
someone's Aunt.
00:31:30.291 --> 00:31:34.291
So the picture was saying,
that is my body laying there.
00:31:34.291 --> 00:31:35.791
I was killed there.
00:31:35.791 --> 00:31:37.250
You can imagine that
00:31:37.250 --> 00:31:39.791
you also could lay there
00:31:39.791 --> 00:31:41.458
you also could be dead.
00:31:41.458 --> 00:31:43.583
You feel it like it is you wounded.
00:31:43.583 --> 00:31:45.375
It is you raped.
00:31:45.375 --> 00:31:47.583
It is you killed.
You know?
00:31:47.583 --> 00:31:50.208
Difficult to explain,
but somehow
00:31:50.208 --> 00:31:52.958
it really works like this.
00:31:52.958 --> 00:31:56.625
It's like generational pain.
00:31:57.083 --> 00:32:00.083
What we feel right now.
00:32:01.375 --> 00:32:04.375
I'm kind of safe, but still,
00:32:05.166 --> 00:32:07.666
I'm cut on pieces of my soul,
00:32:07.666 --> 00:32:08.875
my heart,
cut up in pieces.
00:32:08.875 --> 00:32:13.041
And every time I see something,
I'm very touched,
00:32:13.041 --> 00:32:14.250
with every story.
00:32:14.541 --> 00:32:19.250
So that's why this friend told me not to
00:32:20.666 --> 00:32:21.791
share it so much.
00:32:21.791 --> 00:32:22.666
Because
00:32:23.500 --> 00:32:26.416
in the moment you do not think
like if you should or shouldn't,
00:32:26.416 --> 00:32:29.458
you're just there
because it’s yours.
00:32:29.458 --> 00:32:30.583
Your family,
00:32:30.583 --> 00:32:32.083
your
00:32:32.083 --> 00:32:33.041
people,
00:32:33.041 --> 00:32:35.625
your hometown,
00:32:35.625 --> 00:32:36.791
or the place where
00:32:36.791 --> 00:32:40.625
you were visiting with your friends
or with your family when you were younger.
00:32:40.625 --> 00:32:43.625
And now it's all like this.
00:32:44.041 --> 00:32:46.250
And of course, you can feel it
00:32:46.250 --> 00:32:48.083
even if you don't feel it physically.
00:32:55.916 --> 00:33:01.625
“This morning's collection contains the photograph
of what might be a man's body, or a woman's...”
00:33:01.625 --> 00:33:04.833
“...it is so mutilated that it might, on the
other hand, be the body of a pig...”
00:33:04.833 --> 00:33:07.416
“But those certainly are dead children...”
00:33:07.416 --> 00:33:13.500
"And that undoubtedly is the section of a house.
A bomb has torn open the side..."
00:33:13.500 --> 00:33:19.333
“...there is still a birdcage hanging in
what was presumably the sitting room.”
00:34:52.875 --> 00:34:54.875
There was a few times
00:34:54.875 --> 00:34:57.625
where it was too much for me
00:34:58.666 --> 00:35:00.458
I mean social media and all this
00:35:00.458 --> 00:35:04.041
influence of social media on me
and my emotional state.
00:35:04.458 --> 00:35:08.208
And I remember there was a time
where I was like, okay, I cannot
00:35:08.375 --> 00:35:09.875
I do not have space for this.
00:35:09.875 --> 00:35:11.625
I cannot stand it.
00:35:11.625 --> 00:35:14.541
And I remember I said no
00:35:14.541 --> 00:35:17.333
to Instagram for two months.
00:35:17.333 --> 00:35:18.458
I did a break.
00:35:19.208 --> 00:35:23.166
I remember this very clearly it was
00:35:24.041 --> 00:35:27.625
when the Bucha photographs
00:35:28.541 --> 00:35:32.541
popped up in the internet
like when the Bucha was deoccupied.
00:35:33.041 --> 00:35:35.750
and this couple,
00:35:35.750 --> 00:35:39.541
this friends, they were saying the guy
actually the boyfriend of my friend,
00:35:40.166 --> 00:35:45.333
he said, “You know, Ksenia,
you shouldn't watch this photos”
00:35:45.458 --> 00:35:50.333
“I know it's important for you
and you want to be into this”
00:35:50.708 --> 00:35:53.416
“but it would be too heavy for you”
00:35:53.416 --> 00:35:55.666
“You will not get rid of these photos”
00:35:56.958 --> 00:35:59.625
I saw a few stories about,
00:36:01.625 --> 00:36:03.666
these killings and rapings,
00:36:03.666 --> 00:36:06.916
and really cruel things that you did not
00:36:06.916 --> 00:36:10.291
you could not believe
that it can happen now.
00:36:10.291 --> 00:36:15.583
And I was like okay,
I will disconnect.
00:36:15.583 --> 00:36:18.125
It was my decision.
00:36:18.125 --> 00:36:19.875
Maybe it was not fair.
00:36:19.875 --> 00:36:25.125
It's like closing the eyes
in the middle of genocide.
00:36:25.125 --> 00:36:26.083
I dunno.
00:36:26.083 --> 00:36:28.500
But yeah,
00:36:28.500 --> 00:36:31.250
if I will be broken, then
who will take care of me?
00:36:31.250 --> 00:36:34.250
I should take care of myself.
00:36:36.666 --> 00:36:38.208
It did help a lot.
00:36:38.208 --> 00:36:42.958
You're coming back to these
simple basic life values.
00:36:43.375 --> 00:36:46.458
You are not distracted.
00:36:46.458 --> 00:36:50.958
The life that is in the reach of your hand
00:36:51.375 --> 00:36:55.916
or in the reach of your sight
or your eyes is important.
00:36:55.916 --> 00:36:58.333
What is happening now is important.
00:36:58.333 --> 00:37:01.333
And sometimes we live
00:37:01.333 --> 00:37:04.750
more with a lot of other things.
00:37:04.750 --> 00:37:09.333
So that was kind of freedom,
I would say. Freedom to live my life.
00:37:09.500 --> 00:37:11.041
That helped a lot.
00:37:11.041 --> 00:37:16.375
Yeah, of course not seeing all those
horrible things, not reading stories
00:37:16.666 --> 00:37:20.666
because we can read something
and then to forget or see something
00:37:20.666 --> 00:37:24.791
and just continue with
your like routine as I said
00:37:24.791 --> 00:37:28.041
but it's on your shelf in your head
00:37:28.041 --> 00:37:30.708
and it influenced a lot your psyche.
00:37:30.708 --> 00:37:36.750
So for that moment it,
it was needed to reload a bit
00:37:36.750 --> 00:37:42.041
to recharge this container with all this
like emotional baggage that I got.
00:40:28.583 --> 00:40:32.541
It was coming up on two years
since the start of the full-scale invasion
00:40:32.541 --> 00:40:38.916
and although we were aware of the atrocity and destruction
that had taken place, and was continuing to take place,
00:40:38.916 --> 00:40:46.458
our awareness was primarily upheld through the
representations of this destruction through pixels—on our phones.
00:40:49.291 --> 00:40:57.125
And so, Liuba and I decided to travel to Ukraine, and retrace
the steps of the 2022 Russian invaders of the Kyiv region
00:40:57.125 --> 00:41:02.041
with the aim to witness with our own eyes,
and document with our own cameras,
00:41:02.041 --> 00:41:07.166
the various sites of
destruction they left behind.
00:44:10.333 --> 00:44:14.083
Bucha and Irpin are towns
in the Kyiv region, which suffered
00:44:14.083 --> 00:44:17.916
profoundly in the first
weeks of the war.
00:44:19.416 --> 00:44:23.666
in April 2022, when the Ukrainian
army recaptured these areas
00:44:23.666 --> 00:44:26.625
the atrocities that took place
were quickly discovered.
00:44:28.458 --> 00:44:30.416
Innocent civilians tortured,
00:44:30.416 --> 00:44:33.750
raped and massacred by the Russian army.
00:44:36.166 --> 00:44:38.083
It was near this region that Yarick
00:44:38.083 --> 00:44:41.083
was sheltering at the start of the war.
00:44:42.333 --> 00:44:46.208
As both Liuba and Yarick highlighted
at the start of this film,
00:44:46.208 --> 00:44:50.041
anyone trying to escape these
areas by car, during those times
00:44:50.041 --> 00:44:52.291
would be targeted by the Russians.
00:44:53.541 --> 00:45:00.291
If those cars contained women, children
or the elderly, it didn't matter.
00:45:02.291 --> 00:45:05.583
Since the deoccupation,
the Ukrainian authorities have gathered up
00:45:05.583 --> 00:45:09.333
many of the destroyed civilian cars
they found and left them here,
00:45:09.708 --> 00:45:12.541
as a form of monument.
00:45:16.250 --> 00:45:20.416
One of these cars may very well belong to
the childhood friend of Liuba’s mother,
00:45:20.416 --> 00:45:22.875
who was killed whilst trying to escape.
00:45:22.875 --> 00:45:28.041
Along with her husband
and along with her 14 year old son.
00:45:31.041 --> 00:45:34.833
Investigations are still ongoing,
but so far authorities have documented
00:45:34.833 --> 00:45:38.791
more than 9,000 war crimes in these areas.
00:45:38.791 --> 00:45:41.791
During only this five week period.
00:45:46.708 --> 00:45:53.458
Bucha and Irpin had a combined population
of less than 100,000 people.
00:46:02.375 --> 00:46:04.791
Even now,
nearly three years later,
00:46:04.791 --> 00:46:07.458
there are buildings still left in ruin.
00:46:07.458 --> 00:46:10.250
And yet these scars on
the landscape are nothing
00:46:10.250 --> 00:46:14.958
next to the scars on the psyches of those
who survived the massacres.
00:46:34.541 --> 00:46:38.125
Our guides for this day of
shooting were a young couple
00:46:38.125 --> 00:46:40.416
Herman and Marina.
00:46:40.416 --> 00:46:44.208
At the end of our shooting day they
offered to tell a story on camera.
00:46:44.208 --> 00:46:47.625
The story of when a missile
struck their neighbourhood.
00:46:52.125 --> 00:46:54.083
So after we'd seen,
00:46:55.666 --> 00:46:59.875
the site, the fire,
the people panicking
00:46:59.875 --> 00:47:04.416
and realized our neighbors
were dying in there
00:47:06.208 --> 00:47:08.333
There was nothing else we could do.
00:47:08.333 --> 00:47:13.166
And, of course, there was no,
no electricity, no connection, no nothing.
00:47:13.958 --> 00:47:17.208
So, like, there were no
more plans for that day.
00:47:17.208 --> 00:47:20.583
So we decided to visit my mom,
who lives in the building next to the one
00:47:20.875 --> 00:47:23.875
that, got damaged.
00:47:23.916 --> 00:47:27.875
So, we went to her house,
we knew she was at home
00:47:27.875 --> 00:47:32.333
because she called us before,
to tell the story of how she saw
00:47:32.333 --> 00:47:35.916
the missile flying right outside
of her window a couple of meters away.
00:47:36.166 --> 00:47:39.125
I'm sorry we went to your Mom also
00:47:39.125 --> 00:47:42.333
because we thought
that she can be in terrible panic.
00:47:42.458 --> 00:47:47.583
So, we wanted to comfort her,
if it is needed.
00:47:47.583 --> 00:47:48.875
Yeah. You're right.
00:47:48.875 --> 00:47:51.166
One of the first things I thought,
00:47:51.166 --> 00:47:52.875
if I can help,
00:47:52.875 --> 00:47:55.875
if I can help to maybe rescue people
00:47:56.125 --> 00:48:01.833
or something else, but, immediately after
explosions, there were so many military,
00:48:01.833 --> 00:48:07.041
so many police, so many firefighters,
and everything was done
00:48:07.041 --> 00:48:12.583
in the moment that is needed
to protect and to rescue people.
00:48:12.791 --> 00:48:15.791
So we went to Marina’s
00:48:15.916 --> 00:48:16.833
Mom's house.
00:48:16.833 --> 00:48:19.916
And my mom, she's
like a, she's a very,
00:48:20.833 --> 00:48:23.041
I don't know how to explain this,
00:48:23.041 --> 00:48:25.833
but she's a very classy woman.
00:48:26.791 --> 00:48:28.333
So right away, she offered us
00:48:28.333 --> 00:48:31.333
some tea and, some cake,
00:48:31.791 --> 00:48:34.875
and we were, like, sharing
the news with her because she didn't know,
00:48:35.666 --> 00:48:37.125
what had happened, exactly.
00:48:37.125 --> 00:48:40.375
She knew it was something really close,
but she didn't see anything
00:48:40.375 --> 00:48:43.375
because there was no news,
because there was no connection.
00:48:43.750 --> 00:48:46.625
So I showed her the videos and everything.
00:48:46.625 --> 00:48:50.375
And we were drinking tea from her fancy
00:48:50.583 --> 00:48:54.041
tea cups and eating her fancy cake
00:48:54.333 --> 00:48:58.416
while our neighbors
were dying in the next house.
00:48:59.083 --> 00:49:01.083
And that was such a surreal feeling.
00:49:01.083 --> 00:49:03.166
Like, we're enjoying life
00:49:04.166 --> 00:49:05.541
at the moment
00:49:05.541 --> 00:49:08.208
when people exactly like us
00:49:08.208 --> 00:49:11.208
are dying in in the building
right next to us.
00:49:11.583 --> 00:49:13.250
That was really weird.
00:49:13.250 --> 00:49:15.791
And like, but we still
enjoyed the cake.
00:49:15.791 --> 00:49:18.791
We enjoyed the cake
because what else you can do?
00:49:23.666 --> 00:49:28.250
Herman now serves in the Ukrainian
armed forces as a drone pilot.
00:49:28.250 --> 00:49:31.625
Marina works as an animation artist.
00:50:19.541 --> 00:50:23.041
Ok, at first they said it's
a threat of ballistic rockets,
00:50:24.125 --> 00:50:27.500
which has come from the Black Sea,
which means Crimea.
00:50:28.208 --> 00:50:33.041
So it's still, time
‘til they will come to Kyiv.
00:50:33.041 --> 00:50:34.541
If they will come.
00:50:34.541 --> 00:50:36.166
Nah but I've read before that
00:50:36.166 --> 00:50:39.833
they can come from Crimea
to Kyiv in like six minutes.
00:50:40.666 --> 00:50:42.041
Probably, yes.
00:50:42.041 --> 00:50:42.333
Yeah.
00:50:42.333 --> 00:50:45.083
It's been like fucking,
00:50:45.083 --> 00:50:47.583
I guess we've got, like, two minutes.
00:50:51.625 --> 00:50:54.625
Just the natural side.
00:50:57.208 --> 00:50:59.916
I mean I feel like it's a trick question.
00:50:59.916 --> 00:51:02.166
Like there's no right answer.
00:51:02.166 --> 00:51:03.166
It's either
00:51:03.166 --> 00:51:08.500
you don't like the way I look naturally,
or you don't think I'm good at make-up.
00:51:16.750 --> 00:51:18.500
Now they said
00:51:18.500 --> 00:51:21.083
four of them come back to Crimea.
00:51:21.250 --> 00:51:24.041
That’s the, the jets?
00:51:24.041 --> 00:51:26.750
No what comes back to Crimea?
The jets?
00:51:26.750 --> 00:51:29.625
Yeah, but not all of them
like four of them.
00:51:29.625 --> 00:51:30.500
I don't know how many.
00:51:30.500 --> 00:51:32.125
But come back from where?
00:51:32.125 --> 00:51:33.041
From Odesa or?
00:51:33.041 --> 00:51:34.500
Yeah, from Odesa.
00:51:34.500 --> 00:51:38.291
I don't know, but they said, like,
stay in the shelters ‘til you see
00:51:38.583 --> 00:51:39.583
second siren.
00:51:41.458 --> 00:51:43.791
If I will die, I will die beautiful.
00:51:43.791 --> 00:51:45.916
At least half of me.
00:51:49.416 --> 00:51:51.041
Don’t show it to your parents.
00:51:56.750 --> 00:52:02.500
As we travelled back to Berlin, I had some
unsettling thoughts I couldn't escape.
00:52:04.750 --> 00:52:06.916
I couldn't help but think
about what I'd seen
00:52:06.916 --> 00:52:09.916
and the uselessness of my seeing it.
00:52:14.375 --> 00:52:18.333
How I couldn’t envision it
translating into anything helpful.
00:52:22.333 --> 00:52:24.250
I suppose I was imagining that
00:52:24.250 --> 00:52:29.375
when I would be confronted with the
remnants and reality of this war in person,
00:52:29.375 --> 00:52:31.916
outside of the pixels
and the algorithms,
00:52:31.916 --> 00:52:34.916
that I would be deeply affected.
00:52:37.208 --> 00:52:40.208
But I wasn't.
00:52:41.125 --> 00:52:44.125
At least not to the degree I'd expected.
00:52:45.458 --> 00:52:51.250
It’s as if I’d consumed so much graphic content
and imagery around these atrocities already
00:52:51.250 --> 00:52:57.166
that the war had become
almost an abstraction in my mind.
00:52:58.583 --> 00:53:01.041
Instead of being an antidote
for my numbness,
00:53:01.041 --> 00:53:04.541
being there in person was more
so an indicator of how deep this
00:53:04.541 --> 00:53:06.750
well of desensitisation goes,
00:53:06.750 --> 00:53:11.041
and how broken the cycle of consumption
and feeling has become.
00:53:13.041 --> 00:53:14.125
I didn't feel nothing,
00:53:14.125 --> 00:53:17.333
but I didn't feel everything
I thought a person should.
00:53:18.666 --> 00:53:20.875
I felt wrong.
00:53:20.875 --> 00:53:23.583
and the only hope I had was
that the images we’d captured
00:53:23.583 --> 00:53:26.583
would be helpful somehow.
00:53:27.083 --> 00:53:28.916
But even then, after observing
00:53:28.916 --> 00:53:32.750
how warped my own response
to suffering and destruction had become
00:53:32.750 --> 00:53:36.500
due to my excessive familiarity
with such images online,
00:53:36.500 --> 00:53:39.666
I couldn't help but wonder
if showing more would help,
00:53:39.666 --> 00:53:43.750
or instead become part of the very
problem they're intended to solve.
00:53:45.416 --> 00:53:48.416
I still don't know.
00:54:14.250 --> 00:54:16.041
It feels,
00:54:18.041 --> 00:54:20.083
More staged.
00:54:24.291 --> 00:54:28.375
When you see it by
your own eyes,
00:54:28.375 --> 00:54:32.833
you can’t deny that it
is what happened.
00:54:32.833 --> 00:54:34.041
But,
00:54:34.958 --> 00:54:39.041
when you see it on pictures it’s,
00:54:39.041 --> 00:54:41.458
it’s just documentation.
00:54:42.333 --> 00:54:45.625
Not like ‘just documentation’, but...
00:54:46.041 --> 00:54:47.666
It’s,
00:54:49.125 --> 00:54:52.083
pictured.
00:54:55.125 --> 00:54:58.083
On a screen.
00:54:59.958 --> 00:55:02.958
When it was first
massive attack on,
00:55:03.333 --> 00:55:07.416
Ukraine and Kyiv in particular
because it's my hometown,
00:55:07.416 --> 00:55:10.541
I remember I was so
shocked like I couldn't like,
00:55:10.958 --> 00:55:14.750
eat, I couldn't like think about
other stuff for a few days.
00:55:14.750 --> 00:55:16.041
I was just like,
00:55:16.041 --> 00:55:20.166
and now when it's
tense or even more.
00:55:20.833 --> 00:55:23.083
I’m just like,
“Okay, it's happening again”.
00:55:23.083 --> 00:55:26.083
I feel that it's the new reality
that we live in.
00:55:26.458 --> 00:55:27.083
It's like,
00:55:27.500 --> 00:55:30.500
the thing that was unbelievable
in the past, just,
00:55:32.041 --> 00:55:33.666
Become normal.
00:55:33.666 --> 00:55:36.458
And it's the
most scary
00:55:36.458 --> 00:55:39.458
part of war for
me because,
00:55:40.875 --> 00:55:43.708
you can be
00:55:43.708 --> 00:55:44.708
on my own experience,
00:55:44.708 --> 00:55:47.083
you can be
00:55:48.416 --> 00:55:51.375
oversensitive to everything
or completely numb.
00:55:51.375 --> 00:55:53.916
You don't find
00:55:53.916 --> 00:55:55.916
You don't know how to react
normally because
00:55:55.916 --> 00:55:58.458
normality is just something from
00:55:58.458 --> 00:56:00.708
a past life.
00:56:10.333 --> 00:56:11.458
With my brother
00:56:11.458 --> 00:56:14.916
I haven't seen him for more than a year.
00:56:17.125 --> 00:56:18.666
For sure more than a
year we didn’t see him,
00:56:18.666 --> 00:56:20.583
maybe two years I didn't see him.
00:56:20.583 --> 00:56:24.458
And now when he is gone forever,
00:56:25.500 --> 00:56:29.333
I, for me, like nothing is changed.
00:56:29.333 --> 00:56:31.875
I did not see,
I was not in the funeral.
00:56:31.875 --> 00:56:32.875
I did not see.
00:56:32.875 --> 00:56:36.375
I was only what
I was seeing like pictures.
00:56:36.375 --> 00:56:39.416
I remember I was laying on this bed and
00:56:40.458 --> 00:56:42.333
I saw pictures from the funeral.
00:56:42.333 --> 00:56:46.833
And there I was like, okay,
like I'm there and I'm trying to,
00:56:46.833 --> 00:56:50.041
make it closer to see the
00:56:50.625 --> 00:56:54.041
his body to realise like, that it's him.
00:56:57.291 --> 00:56:58.416
I cried.
00:56:58.416 --> 00:57:00.041
A bit.
00:57:00.041 --> 00:57:03.041
But still, I think it's not enough.
00:57:03.541 --> 00:57:05.291
I feel guilt that I do not feel
00:57:05.291 --> 00:57:08.291
enough of this.
00:57:09.291 --> 00:57:11.208
And I was talking about him.
00:57:11.208 --> 00:57:15.083
I was speaking just to, you know,
00:57:17.375 --> 00:57:20.166
as an act of memory.
00:57:22.041 --> 00:57:25.291
But I do not really understand
that it’s happened.
00:57:25.291 --> 00:57:28.041
Because physically I am here.
00:57:31.625 --> 00:57:33.791
In the beginning
you’re saying,
00:57:33.791 --> 00:57:35.750
“Hi, I’m Ksenia” lalala.
00:57:35.750 --> 00:57:36.875
“I'm from Ukraine”
00:57:36.875 --> 00:57:40.166
And you can see these eyes,
00:57:40.166 --> 00:57:42.375
or you can see the face of this person
00:57:42.375 --> 00:57:46.125
in front of you that is
feeling so sad about you.
00:57:46.708 --> 00:57:48.166
But I don't want to be pitied.
00:57:48.166 --> 00:57:49.458
I don't want to be pitied.
00:57:49.458 --> 00:57:50.916
I'm like, it's fine.
00:57:50.916 --> 00:57:52.708
I’m alive.
00:57:52.708 --> 00:57:53.833
Like, come on.
00:57:53.833 --> 00:57:54.958
Yeah.
00:57:54.958 --> 00:57:56.583
And you are trying to play cool.
00:57:56.583 --> 00:57:58.125
I would say like this
00:57:58.125 --> 00:58:00.083
You are
00:58:00.083 --> 00:58:02.458
having this mask,
00:58:02.916 --> 00:58:04.041
all right, I'm fine.
00:58:04.708 --> 00:58:07.875
because you don't want to be pitied
and you don't want to
00:58:08.541 --> 00:58:10.041
- To feel like you’re a victim
00:58:10.041 --> 00:58:12.875
Yeah, yeah. You don't want
to feel like you're a victim
00:58:12.875 --> 00:58:14.833
and in fact,
00:58:15.458 --> 00:58:19.125
it turned to a chronical disease
00:58:19.125 --> 00:58:22.125
that you're fine,
like you're fine.
00:58:22.583 --> 00:58:25.583
And now,
even if I have a right not to be fine
00:58:26.416 --> 00:58:29.083
and you're still, like,
00:58:29.083 --> 00:58:31.375
in this state where you're
00:58:32.041 --> 00:58:33.458
“Nah, I'm good”
00:58:33.875 --> 00:58:34.708
“Let’s go”
00:58:34.708 --> 00:58:37.583
Sometimes, I go to these protests
00:58:37.583 --> 00:58:41.291
before, especially, just to dive
00:58:41.291 --> 00:58:44.250
into these emotions; collective pain.
00:58:44.250 --> 00:58:49.375
I just want to feel the pain
because I am like
00:58:49.750 --> 00:58:52.666
not noticing it in anymore.
00:58:52.666 --> 00:58:56.500
But I actually feel it,
it's there all the time.
00:58:56.500 --> 00:58:59.416
You just learn how to not notice it.
00:58:59.416 --> 00:59:02.958
So now I definitely feel frozen.
00:59:03.250 --> 00:59:06.500
Even with this death of my brother,
00:59:06.500 --> 00:59:09.458
I’m still fine.
00:59:09.458 --> 00:59:11.583
And I’m, I’m
00:59:11.583 --> 00:59:13.333
scared about this.
00:59:13.333 --> 00:59:15.916
Like, I’m really scared.
Like, that's not right.
00:59:15.916 --> 00:59:17.750
That's not how it should be.
00:59:29.750 --> 00:59:31.166
Yeah it’s also a thing that
00:59:31.166 --> 00:59:35.041
even if you have this trauma and
you're living in this trauma still,
00:59:35.541 --> 00:59:37.666
you're not always thinking
about this trauma.
00:59:37.666 --> 00:59:41.375
So I'm not always thinking about that
I leave Ukraine.
00:59:41.375 --> 00:59:44.583
I'm really sad about it.
00:59:44.833 --> 00:59:47.916
that I was forced to
leave my country.
00:59:47.916 --> 00:59:50.958
But I'm not living in
this trauma everyday.
00:59:50.958 --> 00:59:54.125
I still can have, nice
and good emotions.
00:59:54.125 --> 00:59:57.583
I can enjoy in my life
00:59:57.583 --> 01:00:01.208
and in the same time,
I can hate how I'm living in my life.
01:00:01.208 --> 01:00:03.833
So it's always changing from day to day.
01:00:03.833 --> 01:00:06.041
like sometimes
it happens with some people,
01:00:06.041 --> 01:00:08.958
but I think only with
stupid people who think that
01:00:08.958 --> 01:00:12.291
if you're enjoying your life, if you’re smiling,
then you don't have trauma,
01:00:12.291 --> 01:00:15.958
then you're not worried at the same time,
then everything okay with you,
01:00:15.958 --> 01:00:19.791
and you, for example,
don't need help because you're smiling,
01:00:19.791 --> 01:00:23.041
you're drinking and even can
be wasted or something.
01:00:23.041 --> 01:00:23.958
And then like,
01:00:23.958 --> 01:00:27.125
“you’re then okay, you go to clubs”
Or something.
01:00:27.125 --> 01:00:30.750
But, no.
You can feel both
01:00:30.750 --> 01:00:31.958
ways of feelings.
01:00:31.958 --> 01:00:36.916
You can be in general really sad about
what's going on, but still enjoying life.
01:00:36.916 --> 01:00:41.041
And I think it's the only way
how you can survive your trauma
01:00:41.041 --> 01:00:42.958
of escaping your country.
01:00:43.291 --> 01:00:48.250
Try to find these little moments
of enjoying your life because
01:00:48.791 --> 01:00:52.041
if you will be just suffering
all the time, nothing will happen.
01:00:52.041 --> 01:00:53.666
You will not help your country with this.
01:00:53.666 --> 01:00:56.166
You just will be ruined yourself.
01:00:56.166 --> 01:00:57.541
And it's all and then die.
01:01:03.666 --> 01:01:06.541
We also, in the same time, can
have some other troubles
01:01:06.875 --> 01:01:09.208
that, not about Ukraine.
01:01:09.833 --> 01:01:13.500
You can have your personal problems
right now and other traumas
01:01:13.500 --> 01:01:15.333
and it can be combining all of that
01:01:15.333 --> 01:01:19.750
and it's a really, really horrible
mix of feelings, can be.
01:01:44.416 --> 01:01:46.083
And now it's kind of harder
01:01:46.083 --> 01:01:50.166
because I can’t just call
my Mother whenever I want.
01:01:50.166 --> 01:01:53.708
I just wait till particular time
when they have electricity
01:01:53.708 --> 01:01:55.625
and they have access
to the internet.
01:01:55.625 --> 01:01:58.625
And it's, with time, become
harder and harder.
01:02:04.333 --> 01:02:07.458
And also I think it's kind of a defensive
mechanism of mine,
01:02:08.416 --> 01:02:11.583
I feel really weird
because I feel that like
01:02:13.375 --> 01:02:17.500
It seems like so far that it almost fades away,
like my,
01:02:17.500 --> 01:02:19.583
connections, my life,
01:02:19.583 --> 01:02:22.125
my bondings, my
01:02:23.833 --> 01:02:24.833
family, my friends.
01:02:24.833 --> 01:02:27.458
Just like
01:02:27.458 --> 01:02:31.291
I feel we live life in
a different dimension.
01:02:31.291 --> 01:02:33.041
because I'm here and they
01:02:34.125 --> 01:02:37.125
still in Ukraine.
01:02:39.250 --> 01:02:41.083
Ukranian girls right now,
01:02:41.083 --> 01:02:44.208
they want to fall in love so badly
01:02:44.625 --> 01:02:48.750
because you want to feel something
just like something.
01:02:49.083 --> 01:02:51.791
I don't know that
will shake your soul.
01:02:51.791 --> 01:02:54.750
yeah, just some emotions
because you are like
01:02:54.750 --> 01:02:57.750
stagnant with your emotions.
01:02:58.125 --> 01:03:00.458
The side effect.
01:03:00.458 --> 01:03:03.541
I have to say that I'm the
person who is looking on,
01:03:03.541 --> 01:03:06.458
very graphic content
for two years already,
01:03:06.458 --> 01:03:08.125
a few hours per day minimum.
01:03:08.125 --> 01:03:09.958
But I'm working with this, so
01:03:10.541 --> 01:03:12.291
Of course it's changed me.
01:03:12.291 --> 01:03:15.333
It's a little bit reduced my sensitivity.
01:03:15.333 --> 01:03:19.083
maybe because I'm an artist
and I'm really more familiar with anatomy
01:03:19.083 --> 01:03:20.541
than maybe other people.
01:03:20.541 --> 01:03:22.208
Maybe it’s easier a little bit for me,
01:03:22.208 --> 01:03:24.333
but of course, I have limitation, and I'm
01:03:24.333 --> 01:03:29.041
not looking on execution of captured
people, on execution of civilians.
01:03:29.041 --> 01:03:31.958
It's not my subject, I would say.
01:03:31.958 --> 01:03:33.875
The main reason I’m working
with these images
01:03:34.083 --> 01:03:36.583
is to understand in what
world we live now
01:03:36.583 --> 01:03:40.125
and is it possible to analyse
it in a recent moment?
01:03:40.125 --> 01:03:42.833
The history is developing
in a recent moment,
01:03:42.833 --> 01:03:45.083
we don’t have any distance,
we don’t have any
01:03:45.083 --> 01:03:46.166
perspective.
01:03:46.166 --> 01:03:47.833
Historical perspective.
01:03:47.833 --> 01:03:51.375
We are acting right now, and,
could we write history right now?
01:03:51.666 --> 01:03:53.166
I spend
01:03:53.166 --> 01:03:57.458
a big part of my private time
to make the person understand
01:03:57.458 --> 01:03:59.833
what’s going on in my country.
01:03:59.833 --> 01:04:03.041
And I always come back
in these feelings again.
01:04:03.041 --> 01:04:05.541
So I think
01:04:05.541 --> 01:04:08.541
I'm still feeling same anger.
01:04:09.041 --> 01:04:11.208
And this is the kind of anger,
01:04:11.208 --> 01:04:14.375
which I think will never leave me.
01:04:14.583 --> 01:04:17.208
And I don't want that
I lose this feeling.
01:04:17.208 --> 01:04:21.416
Because this feeling gets
me the power to do something.
01:04:30.083 --> 01:04:33.333
Our intention to spread awareness
and actually help.
01:04:33.333 --> 01:04:39.375
It might work opposite
when it becomes normal.
01:04:39.375 --> 01:04:42.458
and people just don't pay attention
on this anymore.
01:04:43.875 --> 01:04:46.875
Also, that's how news works.
01:04:47.250 --> 01:04:48.541
In the beginning of war.
01:04:48.541 --> 01:04:55.750
it was a feeling of world solidarity
that everybody
01:04:55.750 --> 01:04:59.375
in the civilized world
stand with Ukraine.
01:05:00.250 --> 01:05:01.833
But now, two years later,
01:05:02.833 --> 01:05:05.708
almost two years later,
01:05:07.291 --> 01:05:10.583
people just start treating this war like
01:05:12.333 --> 01:05:14.125
just some war that’s happening.
01:05:14.791 --> 01:05:17.375
It's not in news right now.
01:05:17.375 --> 01:05:19.333
It's not an
01:05:19.333 --> 01:05:20.750
event.
It's not shocking.
01:05:20.750 --> 01:05:22.500
It's not,
01:05:22.500 --> 01:05:23.416
provoking thoughts,
01:05:23.416 --> 01:05:26.458
It's just like something
that happens in this territory.
01:05:27.625 --> 01:05:30.791
And that's the reality
01:05:32.083 --> 01:05:36.708
of people’s attention and of how
01:05:36.708 --> 01:05:39.708
social media works and how
01:05:39.708 --> 01:05:41.083
images works.
01:05:43.500 --> 01:05:47.375
It’s not working anymore.
01:05:47.375 --> 01:05:48.625
And,
01:05:49.916 --> 01:05:51.916
apparently
01:05:51.916 --> 01:05:55.750
should be something more shocking,
more provoking
01:05:55.750 --> 01:05:58.750
to grab people's attention again like,
01:05:58.750 --> 01:06:01.041
atomic bomb probably, or something
01:06:02.166 --> 01:06:05.166
extremely violent.
01:06:05.458 --> 01:06:09.333
But even if this happened, it will
01:06:10.833 --> 01:06:15.166
be news for a certain amount of time
and after that,
01:06:16.333 --> 01:06:17.500
it’s just history.
01:06:33.666 --> 01:06:36.416
Do you feel any different,
01:06:36.416 --> 01:06:41.125
now when you read news of the war,
compared to when it began?
01:06:41.375 --> 01:06:43.375
Yes. I feel really different.
01:06:43.375 --> 01:06:47.708
Super different,
like comparing to what I felt before.
01:06:47.708 --> 01:06:49.500
Because it was so new.
01:06:49.500 --> 01:06:51.791
But now I'm,
01:06:51.791 --> 01:06:56.791
I almost don't feel anything like I'm
not so shocked anymore,
01:06:57.125 --> 01:07:01.416
because, I just saw so many horrible,
01:07:01.416 --> 01:07:05.583
catastrophic stuff, terrorist stuff, like,
01:07:05.583 --> 01:07:07.125
dead bodies,
01:07:07.125 --> 01:07:09.041
ruined buildings,
01:07:09.041 --> 01:07:11.916
and a lot of, a lot of blood,
01:07:11.916 --> 01:07:15.041
that now when I see
pictures like this,
01:07:15.458 --> 01:07:17.833
I don't have some emotions about it.
01:07:17.833 --> 01:07:20.958
It's for me, even scarier
that I don't feel emotions about it
01:07:20.958 --> 01:07:24.291
because I remember how I was crying
just like when I saw that like
01:07:24.291 --> 01:07:30.583
“Oh, they bombed some residential building
and 15 people died and like 4 kids”
01:07:30.583 --> 01:07:33.125
I would start crying
and cannot stop.
01:07:33.125 --> 01:07:36.375
But now when I see I'm
just scrolling it, and that’s all.
01:07:36.375 --> 01:07:39.750
It’s “Oh, next, next”.
It's horrible to say, but, it's true.
01:07:39.750 --> 01:07:42.875
And I'm feeling that
I’m a bit dead inside.
01:07:43.208 --> 01:07:46.500
That I'm not so sensitive
anymore, you know?
01:07:48.833 --> 01:07:52.541
So now when I'm scrolling
Instagram and
01:07:52.541 --> 01:07:59.208
saw all the pictures of the war, I notice
that I become more numb as well.
01:07:59.208 --> 01:08:02.833
It's become just part of my reality.
01:08:03.833 --> 01:08:06.625
It's not horrifying anymore.
01:08:06.625 --> 01:08:08.291
It’s just there.
01:08:08.291 --> 01:08:09.625
It’s just,
01:08:10.500 --> 01:08:13.625
something that’s
happening right now
01:08:14.916 --> 01:08:16.625
Yeah.
01:08:17.500 --> 01:08:20.500
It’s just,
01:08:21.208 --> 01:08:24.416
in a certain point,
I feel less human.
01:08:26.458 --> 01:08:28.291
Because
01:08:28.291 --> 01:08:31.666
I feel like I lost my empathy
01:08:32.791 --> 01:08:35.791
and I lost my sense of
01:08:43.500 --> 01:08:46.541
being like,
01:08:46.541 --> 01:08:49.541
part of the tribe.
01:08:51.083 --> 01:08:53.625
I’m just
01:08:53.625 --> 01:08:55.875
watching through my iPhone
01:08:57.083 --> 01:08:58.416
I have iPhone.
01:08:58.416 --> 01:09:00.333
I have a lot of
01:09:00.333 --> 01:09:02.750
fancy things
01:09:02.750 --> 01:09:05.833
which
01:09:05.833 --> 01:09:08.041
doesn't matter to me anymore.
01:09:08.958 --> 01:09:11.416
Which just doesn't
matter to me anymore.
01:09:11.416 --> 01:09:14.416
It's just.
01:09:15.250 --> 01:09:18.291
Feels like you live in a grey zone.
01:09:19.833 --> 01:09:22.833
You're not able to cry anymore.
01:09:26.166 --> 01:09:28.375
You wake up,
01:09:28.375 --> 01:09:30.875
you’re reaching your phone,
01:09:32.375 --> 01:09:34.458
you look at some horrible pictures,
01:09:34.458 --> 01:09:37.791
you look at some fun pictures.
01:09:37.791 --> 01:09:41.291
People keep living their lives,
doing some stuff.
01:09:42.583 --> 01:09:46.708
It’s just become like
one horrific routine.
/