WEBVTT

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One of my colleagues,
Patrick Vilaire,

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was quoted in
the New York Times,

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he said, \"The dead are dead,
we know that, but without

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our culture, the rest
of us can\'\'t go on living.\"

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It\'\'s not just about bricks
and stones, it\'\'s really

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about some important message,
it\'\'s the way

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we see human civilization
evolving and developing.

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Let\'\'s not forget again
this is a weapon of war,

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it\'\'s killing
the identity of others.

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How could this happen
to these monuments

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that have survived

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the ravages of the environment,
natural disasters,

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and in this 21st century,
we are seeing

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a willful destruction
of these things.

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♪

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♪

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(explosion)

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♪

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Part of war and conflict
has always been

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the collateral damage.

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Buildings have fallen in
the path of military objectives.

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But there has always been
another war going on.

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One of the ways to get rid
of history is to remove

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all physical traces
of that history.

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Make believe
nothing ever happened,

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nothing was ever there.

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You can\'t find any artifacts,
you can\'t find anything

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because everything has been,
has vanished.

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In this war,
buildings aren\'t destroyed

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because they\'re
in the way of a target,

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the buildings are the target.

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People are people
within the place.

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Their history, their identity,
how they draw meaning

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about who they are,
happens in a place.

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And what happens
to that place matters.

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Those buildings are part
of who they are.

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♪

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(explosion)

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A century of wave after
thunderous wave of destruction.

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This war against culture
is not over,

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it\'\'s been steadily increasing.

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How can we stem its path,
and save the story

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of who we are?

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To understand how we got here,

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to find a way forward,
we must first look back.

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On the eve of the 20th century,
the tools of warfare

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and their destructive power
began to accelerate.

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The ability to destroy
a monument,

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a building, a city,
became easier.

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War began to industrialize.

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After a period where there
were set piece battles

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away from centers
of population,

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you were starting
to see total war.

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♪

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At peace conferences, clauses
to protect cultural property

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in times of war were included
in two Hague Conventions.

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It is forbidden, \"To destroy
or seize the enemy\'\'s property,

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unless such destruction
or seizure

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be imperatively demanded
by the necessities of war.\"

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At the end of
the First World War,

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the victorious Allies,
victorious over

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the German Empire
and Ottoman Empire,

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create a Commission
of Responsibility

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for the authors of war,
which investigates

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the allegations
of criminality against

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the leaders of these two
defeated empires,

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and they come up with a list
of 32 individual criminal acts.

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You know, shooting hostages,
sinking of civilian ships.

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One of them is
the wanton destruction

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of cultural property.

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Now in the end, the leaders
of the Axis Powers

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are not prosecuted
for various reasons,

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especially the Ottoman Empire.

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The perpetrators \"getting away\"
without proper retribution

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was not lost on a young
Polish lawyer, Raphael Lemkin.

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Lemkin was born in 1900
in the Russian Empire,

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but he identified
as a Polish Jew.

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He believed in cultural
particularity each nation has

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a particular, specific character
and should be allowed to develop

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that character in its own way,

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without being
forcibly assimilated,

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or absorbed, occupied,
you know,

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which would distort its mission.

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During the 1920s
when he was student

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and then a lawyer in Warsaw,
he became aware of the failure

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to prosecute the perpetrators
of the Armenian genocide,

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which outraged him.

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♪

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For thousands of years,
Armenians have been marking

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their territories
with sacred sites.

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A lot of those are churches,
but also memorials,

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monuments like khatchkars.

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By targeting the monuments
you are oppressing the people

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and making it easier
to get rid of them,

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not just to wipe out
the physical record

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and make it impossible
for them to return,

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but also using it as a weapon.

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Hitler was supposed
to have said very clearly,

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\"Who remembers the Armenians?\"

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He was talking less than
a couple of decades

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after the Armenian genocide,

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and very few people
did remember.

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The Turks had done
a systematic job

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of repressing any memory
of that genocide

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and that included removing
the physical evidence

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of the Armenian people
within Turkish territory,

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systematically dynamiting
buildings, and clearing sites

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and graveyards.

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This didn\'\'t happen by accident,
it was very purposeful,

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it was kicking over the traces.

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♪

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After the assassination
of who was characterized

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as the \"Turkish Hitler,\"
Talaat Pasha,

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he was assassinated by
a young Armenian survivor,

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Lemkin was not happy
that a survivor

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had to bring accountability
to this man

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who had committed
such atrocities,

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and he wanted there to be
an international system,

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he said it\'s not the job
of the survivors to bring

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the perpetrators to justice.

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So, in 1933 as a 33-year-old,

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he proposes at a League
of Nations legal conference,

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to prosecute two new
international crimes.

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One is vandalism,
and the other is barbarism.

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Barbarism is what
we would now call genocide,

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it\'\'s attacks on peoples,
physical attacks.

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Vandalism was attack
on cultural property.

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States in the League of Nations
declined to criminalize

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these kind of acts.

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So, as Lemkin puts it,
these states,

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above all the Nazi state,

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were free to murder
their own civilians.

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♪

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\"Physical
and biological genocide

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are always preceded
by cultural genocide

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or by an attack
on the symbols of the group.\"

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Raphael Lemkin.

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It starts with a smashed window,

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or burnt rags
through a letterbox,

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and becomes the demolition
of a building.

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(explosions)

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Later it can combine, such as
the burning of congregations

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within synagogues
on the Eastern Front

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in the Second World War.

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I grew up in post-war Poland.

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My parents were survivors
of the Holocaust.

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I grew up with no other family
than my immediate family.

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All, you know,
eighty, ninety members

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of my family were murdered.

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And I grew up in a city
that was also devastated.

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We felt the full impact
of the turmoil

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and destruction of culture.

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Not just Jewish culture,
but Polish culture.

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Living in post-war Poland,
you felt you were living

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in the rubble.

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Also cultural rubble,
because the people,

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the carriers
of culture, were gone.

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So it was kind of
a ghost-like existence.

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And the city had resonance
it was destroyed,

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it was an image
of something tragic.

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Going to Warsaw
when I was a child,

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you know,
Warsaw was completely leveled,

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there was nothing really left.

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When you\'re exposed
to this condition,

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as a young person,

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it\'\'s not just one more image
in your mind.

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There was
an ideological component,

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to remove any evidence

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of Slavic cultural genius,
to remove any evidence

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of them as an educated people,
with a history.

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(air raid sirens)

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♪

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When the storm bursts
over Germany,

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they will look back
to the days of Lubeck,

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and Rostock, and Cologne,
as a man caught in

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the blasts of a hurricane
will look back

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to the gentle zephyrs
of last summer.

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The controversial
Allied carpet bombing

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of Germany in
the Second World War

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touches on a lot
of issues, whether it was

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a legitimate tactic
or a successful tactic,

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I don\'t think it was either,
but it was clearly a tactic

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to attack historic cities.

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Not for their cultural content
necessarily, per se,

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but certainly to demoralize
and to de-house people,

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but right from the beginning

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we saw the port of Lubeck
targeted, partly because

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it had a dense historic core
that would burn.

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That was a clear disregard
for the law and customs of war,

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to target centers of population

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and centers of culture
and monuments in that way,

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and there\'s no denying that.

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Feeble industrial targets
were given

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as the official reason
for the German raids

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on Britain, but Goebbels,
in his diaries,

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gave away the truth.

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\"Like the English, we must
attack centers of culture.

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Such centers should be attacked
two or three times in succession

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and leveled to the ground;
then the English probably

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will no longer find pleasure
in trying to frighten us

00:11:13.542 --> 00:11:15.834
by their terror attacks.\"

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♪

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I was eight years old
when we had to flee,

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we were eight kids,
and we drove from

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the East of Germany
via Dresden

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to the middle of Germany
in the hope we would escape

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the last acts of the war.

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I had never seen a large city,

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and Dresden
was particularly appealing

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to a child because it had
a lot of statues.

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I remember the Frauenkirche
from the outside, I remember

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the whole silhouette of the city
with all of these towers,

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it was extraordinary.

00:11:50.709 --> 00:11:52.917
(air raid sirens)

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♪

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The Allies knew
they were, of course,

00:13:21.375 --> 00:13:25.333
bombing civilian targets,
by saying that the destruction

00:13:25.333 --> 00:13:28.750
of German morale
was a military objective

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and therefore justified
by military necessity.

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Debates then about whether
the Germans were victims

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or perpetrators
become somewhat polarized,

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when in fact the two
don\'\'t necessarily

00:13:41.542 --> 00:13:42.417
need to be separated.

00:13:42.417 --> 00:13:46.208
Civilian Germans were clearly
victims of mass bombings,

00:13:46.208 --> 00:13:50.333
terroristic bombings,
by...by the Allies.

00:13:50.333 --> 00:13:59.834
♪

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One of the few buildings
that survived

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was a military barracks
one of the only valid targets,

00:14:05.333 --> 00:14:08.792
which sits on a hill,
looking at the city.

00:14:08.792 --> 00:14:12.250
Nazi leaders were not prosecuted
for aerial warfare

00:14:12.250 --> 00:14:15.959
at the Nuremberg Trials
they did bomb Rotterdam,

00:14:15.959 --> 00:14:18.041
Coventry, London,
but these didn\'t come up

00:14:18.041 --> 00:14:20.709
in the Nuremberg Trials,
all because Allied leaders

00:14:20.709 --> 00:14:23.667
ordered bombing
of German civilians.

00:14:23.667 --> 00:14:24.875
♪

00:14:24.875 --> 00:14:30.542
There were very clear orders
to protect the treasures

00:14:30.542 --> 00:14:35.083
of Italy as far as possible
from destruction.

00:14:35.083 --> 00:14:38.667
Generally, there was an attitude
that this is the cradle

00:14:38.667 --> 00:14:41.750
of our collective civilization

00:14:41.750 --> 00:14:46.917
and we all own this
and we need to care for it,

00:14:46.917 --> 00:14:49.375
even within
the middle of battle.

00:14:49.375 --> 00:14:51.375
It could be argued that Dresden
should have been seen

00:14:51.375 --> 00:14:54.417
the same way,
but its universal appeal

00:14:54.417 --> 00:14:57.000
was not the same,
and even within Germany

00:14:57.000 --> 00:14:59.875
it could be argued
that cities like Dresden,

00:14:59.875 --> 00:15:01.834
the architectural form
of those cities,

00:15:01.834 --> 00:15:03.667
weren\'t valued
by the Nazi regime.

00:15:03.667 --> 00:15:07.333
They didn\'t mind very much
that one city after the other

00:15:07.333 --> 00:15:08.834
was destroyed
because they wanted

00:15:08.834 --> 00:15:11.208
to rebuild them anyway,
get rid of this old stuff

00:15:11.208 --> 00:15:13.333
and build something modern
on it.

00:15:13.333 --> 00:15:16.709
A lot of people died,
but that was an economic

00:15:16.709 --> 00:15:20.208
and a...personal loss.

00:15:20.208 --> 00:15:22.917
♪

00:15:22.917 --> 00:15:24.959
People who destroy
cultural property

00:15:24.959 --> 00:15:28.542
during armed conflict
have also done many other

00:15:28.542 --> 00:15:32.709
bad things which are
more intuitively obvious

00:15:32.709 --> 00:15:35.291
to be war crimes
and things for which

00:15:35.291 --> 00:15:39.583
they should be punished,
and generally what we see

00:15:39.583 --> 00:15:42.083
is that destruction
of cultural property is,

00:15:42.083 --> 00:15:44.125
in a sense,
a second class citizen

00:15:44.125 --> 00:15:48.250
to other types of violations
of international law

00:15:48.250 --> 00:15:51.291
and war crimes
that are committed.

00:16:15.291 --> 00:16:18.750
The devastation of the Holocaust
showed the urgent need

00:16:18.750 --> 00:16:20.959
for Lemkin\'s ideas
to be adopted.

00:16:20.959 --> 00:16:26.083
He used the word \"genocide\"
for the first time in 1944

00:16:26.083 --> 00:16:29.250
a single word for what
he\'d earlier called

00:16:29.250 --> 00:16:31.333
barbarism and vandalism.

00:16:31.333 --> 00:16:35.166
In 1946, the United Nations
General Assembly

00:16:35.166 --> 00:16:39.250
ordered a committee to devise
the Genocide Convention.

00:16:39.250 --> 00:16:42.542
In early drafts, genocide
can be one of three acts -

00:16:42.542 --> 00:16:45.792
physical genocide,
biological genocide,

00:16:46.792 --> 00:16:48.333
or cultural genocide.

00:16:49.333 --> 00:16:51.500
There were vehement objections
to the notion

00:16:51.500 --> 00:16:55.166
that cultural genocide could
be placed at an equal level

00:16:55.166 --> 00:16:56.792
with physical
or biological genocide.

00:16:56.792 --> 00:17:02.333
Russia was arguing heavily for
the inclusion of vandalism,

00:17:02.333 --> 00:17:03.500
it had had millions of buildings

00:17:03.500 --> 00:17:07.000
destroyed by the Nazis
after Operation Barbarossa.

00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:11.125
But the United States, Canada,
Australia, and New Zealand,

00:17:11.125 --> 00:17:13.208
worried about the fallout
from their treatment

00:17:13.208 --> 00:17:15.542
of indigenous peoples
and their cultures,

00:17:15.542 --> 00:17:17.959
actively campaigned to have
the cultural elements removed.

00:17:17.959 --> 00:17:20.333
And it was eventually excluded
in 1948,

00:17:20.333 --> 00:17:22.417
and what we\'re left with
is essentially

00:17:23.417 --> 00:17:25.750
what Lemkin proposed
as barbarism in 1933,

00:17:25.750 --> 00:17:27.750
so the entire
cultural dimension,

00:17:27.750 --> 00:17:29.917
which, for him,
was so elemental, was omitted.

00:17:29.917 --> 00:17:33.291
\"Many delegations fell silent
when I endeavored

00:17:33.291 --> 00:17:36.625
to explain the importance
of this matter.

00:17:36.625 --> 00:17:39.291
After having overcome
so many hurdles

00:17:39.291 --> 00:17:42.375
and with the end
of the Assembly in sight,

00:17:42.375 --> 00:17:44.667
I questioned the wisdom
of engaging

00:17:44.667 --> 00:17:46.542
in still another battle.

00:17:46.542 --> 00:17:51.542
So with a heavy heart,
I decided not to press for it.\"

00:17:51.792 --> 00:17:54.500
Although the cultural elements
had been argued out,

00:17:54.500 --> 00:17:57.750
the extent of the war\'s damage
couldn\'\'t be ignored.

00:17:57.750 --> 00:18:00.667
After World War Two,
the international community

00:18:00.667 --> 00:18:04.208
created a large number
of international conventions,

00:18:04.208 --> 00:18:05.750
particularly conventions

00:18:05.750 --> 00:18:08.291
on the humanitarian
international law,

00:18:08.291 --> 00:18:10.125
such as the Geneva Conventions.

00:18:10.125 --> 00:18:12.041
At the same time,
UNESCO was created,

00:18:12.041 --> 00:18:16.333
also by the United Nations,
as a separate body.

00:18:16.333 --> 00:18:17.750
♪

00:18:17.750 --> 00:18:20.625
The 1954 Hague Convention
on the Protection

00:18:20.625 --> 00:18:23.667
of Cultural Property
in the event of Armed Conflict

00:18:23.667 --> 00:18:25.667
is the first time
that cultural property

00:18:25.667 --> 00:18:29.333
was singled out for its own set
of international law.

00:18:29.959 --> 00:18:32.250
However, it is not considered
to be a part

00:18:32.250 --> 00:18:34.000
of international
humanitarian law;

00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:37.250
rather, it is part
of the law of armed conflict,

00:18:37.250 --> 00:18:40.875
and I believe that while
that raised the profile

00:18:40.875 --> 00:18:43.417
of cultural property,
by separating it

00:18:43.417 --> 00:18:45.875
from the humanitarian law,
it made it

00:18:45.875 --> 00:18:48.875
much more susceptible
to armed conflict itself,

00:18:48.875 --> 00:18:50.166
because in
the Hague Convention

00:18:50.166 --> 00:18:52.959
was added what\'s called
the military necessity waiver,

00:18:52.959 --> 00:18:55.917
and there\'s no definition
of what that means.

00:18:55.917 --> 00:19:01.125
It could excuse a lot of attacks
on cultural property.

00:19:01.125 --> 00:19:04.333
49 countries immediately signed
the convention,

00:19:04.333 --> 00:19:07.458
but the tensions of the Cold War
convinced key states

00:19:07.458 --> 00:19:11.959
like the UK and the US
to put ratification aside.

00:19:11.959 --> 00:19:15.083
♪

00:19:15.083 --> 00:19:17.792
The world was
in a state of flux.

00:19:17.792 --> 00:19:21.458
Refugees moved back
and forth across it.

00:19:21.458 --> 00:19:22.375
♪

00:19:22.375 --> 00:19:25.000
It was my ninth birthday,
I still remember,

00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:28.208
we went to say goodbye
to my grandparents,

00:19:28.208 --> 00:19:31.333
and that\'s the last time
I saw my grandfather.

00:19:31.333 --> 00:19:33.834
He died before we could go back.

00:19:33.834 --> 00:19:35.125
There were, at that point,

00:19:35.125 --> 00:19:37.500
still bodies lying
in the street.

00:19:37.500 --> 00:19:41.959
We crossed the border
at night and were shot at.

00:19:41.959 --> 00:19:46.667
I remember refugee camps,
I knew what it was like

00:19:46.667 --> 00:19:49.000
to find yourself
in a different country

00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:51.000
where nobody speaks
your language...

00:19:51.166 --> 00:19:53.750
and where nobody
has your memories.

00:19:53.750 --> 00:19:58.625
I knew at that age
what it was to be homesick.

00:19:58.625 --> 00:20:01.166
The uneasy détente
of the Cold War

00:20:01.166 --> 00:20:04.166
led to some limitation
on cultural destruction,

00:20:04.166 --> 00:20:09.166
but when the Iron Curtain fell,
all hell would break loose.

00:20:09.166 --> 00:20:15.333
♪

00:20:15.333 --> 00:20:19.834
It was hard for people
to comprehend that such things

00:20:19.834 --> 00:20:24.375
could be happening in Europe
at the end of the 20th century.

00:20:24.375 --> 00:20:27.500
We thought we had left
all that behind us,

00:20:27.500 --> 00:20:30.166
and the world was just
in the process of breathing

00:20:30.166 --> 00:20:33.417
a great sigh of relief
that the Cold War was over,

00:20:33.417 --> 00:20:34.959
and that
the nuclear annihilation

00:20:34.959 --> 00:20:38.333
that everyone had feared
for nearly half a century

00:20:38.333 --> 00:20:39.208
was receding.

00:20:39.208 --> 00:20:43.583
And then suddenly
you have this massive upheaval.

00:20:43.583 --> 00:20:45.208
What would happen
to cultural heritage

00:20:45.208 --> 00:20:48.667
during the Balkan Wars
would dramatically change

00:20:48.667 --> 00:20:50.083
our understanding of the issue.

00:20:50.083 --> 00:20:54.250
The severity of destruction
would trigger the beginnings

00:20:54.250 --> 00:20:56.166
of change.

00:20:57.875 --> 00:21:01.291
I grew up in a family of four.

00:21:01.291 --> 00:21:05.166
My father was a lawyer,
my mom worked for a bank.

00:21:05.166 --> 00:21:08.667
My sister and I
were three years apart.

00:21:08.667 --> 00:21:11.667
Aida was a bookworm.

00:21:11.667 --> 00:21:13.250
I remember fights at home when

00:21:13.250 --> 00:21:14.625
we didn\'t have
a very big apartment

00:21:14.625 --> 00:21:19.166
so she and I shared a room,
so she would keep her lights on

00:21:19.166 --> 00:21:20.583
and read until 3:00
in the morning,

00:21:20.583 --> 00:21:23.333
4:00 in the morning,
whereas my lights were off.

00:21:23.333 --> 00:21:26.750
We were just a happy family,
a very happy family,

00:21:26.750 --> 00:21:29.834
and we had lots
of immediate friends

00:21:29.834 --> 00:21:31.792
and then family across Bosnia.

00:21:31.792 --> 00:21:36.208
We travelled a lot, we spent
our summers on the coast,

00:21:36.208 --> 00:21:38.500
we spent our winters
on the mountain,

00:21:38.500 --> 00:21:41.458
we really had
a very privileged childhood.

00:21:41.458 --> 00:21:43.750
After Tito died,
things started to change.

00:21:43.750 --> 00:21:46.917
They did not--I did not really
feel the change so much at

00:21:46.917 --> 00:21:48.917
the political level,
but more so

00:21:48.917 --> 00:21:51.667
at the economic level;
suddenly we had shortages,

00:21:51.667 --> 00:21:58.417
we had issues around goods,
and the idea of debt,

00:21:58.417 --> 00:22:01.542
there was the national debt
that was for the first time

00:22:01.542 --> 00:22:04.250
being talked about
so publicly,

00:22:04.250 --> 00:22:05.959
so things were changing.

00:22:05.959 --> 00:22:11.125
If, in your country,
the Ku Klux Klan

00:22:11.125 --> 00:22:15.041
had full control of all
the national television networks

00:22:15.041 --> 00:22:18.959
and even the local newspapers,
if, for ten years,

00:22:18.959 --> 00:22:24.375
you had nothing but
the message of David Duke,

00:22:24.375 --> 00:22:27.125
then you too would have war.

00:22:27.125 --> 00:22:34.625
♪

00:22:34.625 --> 00:22:38.625
Within a month,
the shelling started hitting,

00:22:38.625 --> 00:22:42.875
in fact, singling out
cultural landmarks.

00:22:42.875 --> 00:22:44.500
(explosion)

00:22:44.500 --> 00:22:47.375
It was really in May of 1992,

00:22:47.375 --> 00:22:50.500
when the Oriental
Institute Library was burnt,

00:22:50.500 --> 00:22:53.000
that I felt these people
mean business.

00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:54.333
Before that,
people had already died,

00:22:54.333 --> 00:22:56.458
there were grenades,
there were killings,

00:22:56.458 --> 00:22:58.750
there were explosions
everywhere,

00:22:58.750 --> 00:23:01.375
but I just reacted
most profoundly

00:23:01.375 --> 00:23:03.709
when I heard
about the Oriental Institute.

00:23:03.709 --> 00:23:06.000
Somehow, I just put two
and two together,

00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:07.959
I think, for the first time,
when I thought,

00:23:07.959 --> 00:23:10.375
\"This is not just about
somebody expressing

00:23:10.375 --> 00:23:12.709
their momentary anger
and killing other people,

00:23:12.709 --> 00:23:18.250
this is somebody who knows
what is held in that library,

00:23:18.250 --> 00:23:19.291
they know what they are doing,

00:23:19.291 --> 00:23:21.959
and they are doing it
for a particular purpose.

00:23:21.959 --> 00:23:24.125
This is not going to go away.

00:23:24.125 --> 00:23:27.583
They are rewriting history
at this very moment.

00:23:28.291 --> 00:23:31.083
That really scared me so much.

00:23:31.083 --> 00:23:33.417
I just remember feeling
apocalyptic moment,

00:23:33.417 --> 00:23:37.041
which you just see
into this, look at this void,

00:23:37.041 --> 00:23:39.333
and think nothing exists
after this.

00:23:39.333 --> 00:23:40.333
♪

00:23:40.333 --> 00:23:42.959
The revelations
of the summer of \'92,

00:23:42.959 --> 00:23:46.917
of concentration camps,
of mass killings,

00:23:46.917 --> 00:23:50.375
and hundreds of thousands
of people on the move,

00:23:50.375 --> 00:23:55.125
in the background
of all that was the destruction

00:23:55.125 --> 00:23:56.125
of culture as well.

00:23:56.125 --> 00:24:01.166
These people were being targeted
not for being armed opponents,

00:24:01.166 --> 00:24:05.792
but for belonging to
the wrong cultural category.

00:24:05.792 --> 00:24:09.959
That\'s when it became very clear
that this wasn\'t

00:24:09.959 --> 00:24:13.166
just destruction
incidental to war,

00:24:13.166 --> 00:24:17.250
but the destruction
was the whole point.

00:24:32.166 --> 00:24:37.500
All kind of religions
lived together,

00:24:37.500 --> 00:24:40.417
not side by side, but together.

00:24:40.417 --> 00:24:42.500
I don\'t like to remember

00:24:42.500 --> 00:24:48.375
that particular 25,
26th August, 1992.

00:24:48.375 --> 00:24:54.000
I hate to go back in my mind.

00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:56.208
This was close
to two million books

00:24:56.208 --> 00:24:59.041
destroyed in a single night
of shelling.

00:24:59.041 --> 00:25:02.333
There were dramatic pictures
of the burning library

00:25:02.333 --> 00:25:04.375
on the wire services.

00:25:04.375 --> 00:25:08.542
In all of North America,
only one newspaper picked it up,

00:25:08.542 --> 00:25:12.250
and it was run without a story,
just with a short caption.

00:25:12.250 --> 00:25:14.583
She started to work
at the National Library.

00:25:14.583 --> 00:25:17.625
I visited her in her office
a couple of times when I was

00:25:17.625 --> 00:25:23.542
in Sarajevo and she just...
she really thrived there.

00:25:23.542 --> 00:25:25.166
She had plans,
other plans of course,

00:25:25.166 --> 00:25:28.166
but there was something about it
that was grounding her

00:25:28.166 --> 00:25:32.000
in a way that these other jobs
did not,

00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:36.208
and it was really her love
for books, I think,

00:25:36.208 --> 00:25:39.667
that weighed in
very visibly there,

00:25:39.667 --> 00:25:42.709
and that she became so attached
to that place

00:25:42.709 --> 00:25:44.625
and to the people
who worked there.

00:25:44.625 --> 00:25:48.333
We were good friends,
we worked together

00:25:48.333 --> 00:25:51.583
for a few years.

00:25:51.583 --> 00:25:54.125
She was...she was...

00:25:54.125 --> 00:25:54.583
♪

00:25:54.583 --> 00:25:57.125
That last conversation
that I had with my father

00:25:57.125 --> 00:25:59.959
and with her, she,
like my dad was saying,

00:25:59.959 --> 00:26:03.709
\"Oh, don\'t worry,
nothing is going to happen...\"

00:26:03.917 --> 00:26:07.834
and she quickly changed
the subject to tell me about

00:26:07.834 --> 00:26:11.750
some new hair color that
she found that she was asking

00:26:11.750 --> 00:26:13.333
my opinion about,
it ended up being

00:26:13.333 --> 00:26:16.500
a very lighthearted
conversation.

00:26:16.500 --> 00:26:19.834
All the while the planes
were going back and forth.

00:26:19.834 --> 00:26:24.250
And I felt that she was,
in a way, both soothing me,

00:26:24.250 --> 00:26:26.166
as well as herself.

00:26:26.166 --> 00:26:32.208
There was quite a bit
of resistance in her case

00:26:32.208 --> 00:26:37.375
to accept that reality
of the war,

00:26:37.375 --> 00:26:40.959
the demand to be enclosed,

00:26:40.959 --> 00:26:44.375
the demand to be in
your running shoes always,

00:26:44.375 --> 00:26:47.291
running away from snipers
and, from what I understand,

00:26:47.291 --> 00:26:50.750
she kept on putting
beautiful clothes

00:26:50.750 --> 00:26:51.750
and making up every morning,

00:26:51.750 --> 00:26:55.250
and going to work
as if nothing was happening,

00:26:55.250 --> 00:26:58.875
just defying
that kind of assault

00:26:58.875 --> 00:27:00.625
by being what she was.

00:27:00.625 --> 00:27:02.875
The afternoon of August 25th,

00:27:02.875 --> 00:27:05.083
the shelling
had gotten very severe,

00:27:05.083 --> 00:27:08.250
the staff decided
it was no longer safe

00:27:08.250 --> 00:27:11.542
to stay in the building,
they started heading home.

00:27:11.542 --> 00:27:14.458
One of the staffers,
Aida Buturovic,

00:27:14.458 --> 00:27:20.291
a young woman who worked in
the Library\'s exchanges section,

00:27:20.291 --> 00:27:22.542
on her way home, was killed.

00:27:22.542 --> 00:27:27.083
Her family didn\'t find out
about it until the next day

00:27:27.083 --> 00:27:29.542
when they found her body
in the morgue.

00:27:29.542 --> 00:27:32.000
This is during a siege
of the city

00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:35.750
when the library
was not open for business,

00:27:35.750 --> 00:27:37.792
people came out of
a sense of duty,

00:27:37.792 --> 00:27:38.875
they weren\'t collecting pay,

00:27:38.875 --> 00:27:42.375
they were working in offices
that no longer had windows,

00:27:42.375 --> 00:27:45.250
and, nevertheless,
they continued to come

00:27:45.250 --> 00:27:48.125
because they had
to save the books.

00:27:48.792 --> 00:27:53.375
I knew I was risking my life,

00:27:53.375 --> 00:27:57.250
but it was my way to fight

00:27:57.250 --> 00:28:00.250
for this country,
for this city,

00:28:00.250 --> 00:28:06.625
for what I thought
is important and is right.

00:28:06.625 --> 00:29:00.166
♪

00:29:00.166 --> 00:29:02.792
When I remember
what is no longer there,

00:29:02.792 --> 00:29:07.750
I feel a spasm in my stomach,
a knot in my throat.

00:29:07.750 --> 00:29:11.959
I feel death lurking
in its absence.

00:29:12.417 --> 00:29:15.875
I\'\'ve heard that the people
of Mostar, even adults,

00:29:15.875 --> 00:29:18.000
cried when they saw that
the bridge had fallen.

00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:20.709
We expect people to die.

00:29:20.709 --> 00:29:23.417
We count on
our own lives to end.

00:29:23.417 --> 00:29:26.792
The destruction of a monument
to civilization

00:29:26.792 --> 00:29:28.583
is something else.

00:29:28.792 --> 00:29:32.500
The bridge, in all
its beauty and grace,

00:29:32.500 --> 00:29:34.417
was built to outlive us;

00:29:34.417 --> 00:29:37.625
it was an attempt
to grasp eternity.

00:29:37.625 --> 00:29:42.083
Because it was the product
of both individual creativity

00:29:42.083 --> 00:29:43.667
and collective experience,

00:29:43.667 --> 00:29:46.917
it transcended
our individual destiny.

00:29:47.750 --> 00:29:52.583
The bridge is all
of us, forever.

00:29:52.583 --> 00:29:56.667
♪

00:29:56.667 --> 00:29:59.834
The world\'s response
would be put to the test.

00:29:59.834 --> 00:30:03.917
The destruction could not
be passed over again.

00:30:03.917 --> 00:30:05.959
Clauses were included
in the Dayton Accords,

00:30:05.959 --> 00:30:10.417
to protect Balkan heritage
from that day forward.

00:30:10.792 --> 00:30:14.834
The UN Security Council
had set up a Criminal Tribunal

00:30:14.834 --> 00:30:17.083
during the Balkan wars,
to bring justice

00:30:17.083 --> 00:30:19.542
to the perpetrators
of atrocities.

00:30:19.542 --> 00:30:21.834
It has its own rules
and regulations,

00:30:21.834 --> 00:30:24.417
in which intentional
cultural destruction,

00:30:24.417 --> 00:30:27.291
taking its lead from
the 1954 Hague Convention,

00:30:27.291 --> 00:30:29.834
would be criminalized.

00:30:29.834 --> 00:30:33.583
In 1998, war broke out
in Kosovo.

00:30:33.583 --> 00:30:36.834
When it ended the next year,
the UN was given

00:30:36.834 --> 00:30:39.291
administrative control
of Kosovo.

00:30:39.291 --> 00:30:42.750
I called up the UNESCO
headquarters in Paris,

00:30:42.750 --> 00:30:45.750
and I asked, \"Is there
any project

00:30:45.750 --> 00:30:49.709
to do a comprehensive survey
of what happened

00:30:49.709 --> 00:30:51.667
to cultural heritage
in Kosovo?\"

00:30:51.667 --> 00:30:53.709
And I got a rather
disturbing answer,

00:30:53.709 --> 00:30:57.583
namely that, \"We only
do these kinds of missions

00:30:57.583 --> 00:30:59.917
at the initiative
of the member country,

00:30:59.917 --> 00:31:02.542
and Yugoslavia, i.e. Belgrade,

00:31:02.542 --> 00:31:04.792
has not requested
such a thing.\"

00:31:04.792 --> 00:31:05.500
I got furious.

00:31:05.500 --> 00:31:08.875
I figured that if nothing
was surveyed before

00:31:08.875 --> 00:31:12.875
the first winter,
then it would be impossible

00:31:12.875 --> 00:31:14.583
to determine what had happened.

00:31:14.583 --> 00:31:19.125
As time passed, places
would be demolished or rebuilt,

00:31:19.125 --> 00:31:22.166
or even if they weren\'t,
a burned out building

00:31:22.166 --> 00:31:26.709
in a harsh Balkan winter
will destroy itself.

00:31:26.709 --> 00:31:30.041
Andras received a small grant
and departed for Kosovo

00:31:30.041 --> 00:31:33.458
to conduct the survey himself,
with some legal pointers from

00:31:33.458 --> 00:31:37.291
the ICTY prosecutors
on what makes good evidence.

00:31:37.291 --> 00:31:39.333
It wasn\'t what
we expected at all.

00:31:39.333 --> 00:31:44.750
There had been reports during
the war that a lot of heritage

00:31:44.750 --> 00:31:46.625
had been destroyed by bombing.

00:31:46.625 --> 00:31:51.333
NATO had bombed Kosovo
for 79 days during the war,

00:31:51.333 --> 00:31:55.875
but in fact very little damage
had been done by the bombing.

00:31:55.875 --> 00:31:58.250
However, there was massive
damage that had been done

00:31:58.250 --> 00:31:59.208
from the ground up.

00:31:59.208 --> 00:32:03.500
Out of 625 mosques
in Kosovo before the war,

00:32:03.500 --> 00:32:08.458
more than 220
had been destroyed or damaged.

00:32:08.458 --> 00:32:12.333
Mosques had been burned,
destroyed by explosives

00:32:12.333 --> 00:32:14.291
or had been shelled
at close range.

00:32:14.291 --> 00:32:17.417
In many cases surrounding
buildings were undamaged,

00:32:17.417 --> 00:32:19.792
so it was evidently targeted.

00:32:19.792 --> 00:32:22.792
In October of 2000,
Milosevic got overthrown,

00:32:22.792 --> 00:32:28.709
and in June of 2001, he was
handed over to the UN Tribunal.

00:32:28.709 --> 00:32:30.917
And suddenly there was
an urgency from

00:32:30.917 --> 00:32:33.208
the Hague saying,
\"We want a report.\"

00:32:33.208 --> 00:32:37.875
The trial started in February
of 2002 and I was one

00:32:37.875 --> 00:32:41.333
of the first witnesses
for the prosecution.

00:32:41.333 --> 00:32:43.291
It was a fascinating experience.

00:32:43.291 --> 00:32:46.750
First of all, I\'d never done
anything of the sort, you know,

00:32:46.750 --> 00:32:52.458
facing a head of state
who potentially had the blood

00:32:52.458 --> 00:32:55.500
of thousands on his hands.

00:32:55.500 --> 00:32:58.291
And I was nervous.

00:32:58.291 --> 00:33:01.875
After a while, I realized
that Milosevic

00:33:01.875 --> 00:33:05.083
was merely repeating
the allegations

00:33:05.083 --> 00:33:07.709
from the \"White Book\"
that had been issued

00:33:07.709 --> 00:33:09.583
by his government
during the war,

00:33:09.583 --> 00:33:11.750
claiming there was
all this destruction

00:33:11.750 --> 00:33:15.792
by NATO and that Serb heritage
has suffered.

00:33:15.792 --> 00:33:19.000
I had seen the White Book before
I had gone to Kosovo,

00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:23.458
I\'d visited every site
and seen it with my own eyes,

00:33:23.458 --> 00:33:26.750
so I knew that no facts
in the White Book

00:33:26.750 --> 00:33:31.291
were in fact verifiable
as such on the ground.

00:33:31.291 --> 00:33:33.250
And so I became more confident.

00:33:33.250 --> 00:33:38.417
And I expected Milosevic to get
angry at being contradicted,

00:33:38.417 --> 00:33:43.291
he was acting as his own lawyer
so he was cross-examining me

00:33:43.291 --> 00:33:45.542
in court,
and I suddenly realized

00:33:45.542 --> 00:33:49.750
I knew more and cared more
about this stuff than he did,

00:33:49.750 --> 00:33:52.417
but also, whenever
he was contradicted,

00:33:52.417 --> 00:33:55.583
he looked puzzled,
a minute later he would

00:33:55.583 --> 00:33:56.917
ask the same question over again

00:33:56.917 --> 00:34:00.875
and look even more puzzled,
and then I suddenly realized

00:34:00.875 --> 00:34:04.542
that it\'s the danger
of absolute power

00:34:04.542 --> 00:34:07.417
you develop the illusion
that you can control reality

00:34:07.417 --> 00:34:10.959
by saying so, you know,
who are you going to believe,

00:34:10.959 --> 00:34:12.417
me or your lying eyes?

00:34:12.417 --> 00:34:13.917
The success
of his testimony prompted

00:34:13.917 --> 00:34:17.375
the Tribunal\'s prosecutors
to ask Andras to collect

00:34:17.375 --> 00:34:18.667
similar evidence for Bosnia.

00:34:18.667 --> 00:34:23.291
And I spent the month of July
going around Bosnia accompanied

00:34:23.291 --> 00:34:27.125
by my friend
Professor Muhamed Hamidovic.

00:35:18.500 --> 00:35:23.792
As I went around, I actually had
a map, I started drawing dots.

00:35:23.792 --> 00:35:26.542
Eventually, the dots formed
into patterns

00:35:26.542 --> 00:35:30.208
and you could see the territory
that had been overrun

00:35:30.208 --> 00:35:33.959
and ethnically cleansed,
by the dots marking

00:35:33.959 --> 00:35:37.750
the destruction
of historical landmarks.

00:35:37.750 --> 00:35:40.542
As far as I know, in all
of the Serb-controlled part

00:35:40.542 --> 00:35:44.750
of Bosnia, not a single mosque
remained undamaged,

00:35:44.750 --> 00:35:47.250
three quarters
of all Catholic churches

00:35:47.250 --> 00:35:49.125
were destroyed as well.

00:35:49.125 --> 00:35:54.041
♪

00:35:54.041 --> 00:35:57.125
Let me make clear
that there was some destruction

00:35:57.125 --> 00:36:00.959
also of Serbian Orthodox
heritage,

00:36:00.959 --> 00:36:04.959
but it was not in
the same proportion,

00:36:04.959 --> 00:36:07.333
and not in the same context.

00:36:07.333 --> 00:36:10.583
When I would talk to
cultural heritage professionals

00:36:10.583 --> 00:36:13.875
in the town, they would
kind of quietly whisper,

00:36:13.875 --> 00:36:15.625
\"Oh yes, over there,
that\'s where

00:36:15.625 --> 00:36:19.750
the 16th century mosque was
and it\'\'s now a parking lot,

00:36:19.750 --> 00:36:20.792
don\'t let them tell you

00:36:20.792 --> 00:36:24.208
that it was never there,
because it was there.\"

00:36:24.625 --> 00:36:27.417
I did come across
some heartening stories,

00:36:27.417 --> 00:36:29.875
one of which is the story
of Baljvine,

00:36:29.875 --> 00:36:34.500
a small village, about half
the population is Muslim,

00:36:34.500 --> 00:36:37.583
the other half
are Orthodox Serbs.

00:36:37.583 --> 00:36:40.709
Three times during the war,
soldiers from outside

00:36:40.709 --> 00:36:42.208
the village tried
to incite the locals

00:36:42.208 --> 00:36:45.417
to turn against each other,
and to destroy the mosque.

00:37:09.792 --> 00:37:12.792
The mosque in Baljvine
is the only one that kept

00:37:12.792 --> 00:37:16.458
its minaret out of more
than 600 mosques

00:37:16.458 --> 00:37:18.417
in that part of Bosnia.

00:37:18.417 --> 00:37:19.291
That sends a message

00:37:19.291 --> 00:37:20.959
if you\'\'re not going
to tolerate the destruction

00:37:20.959 --> 00:37:23.333
of cultural heritage,
you\'re certainly not going

00:37:23.333 --> 00:37:26.041
to tolerate the burning
of your neighbor\'s house

00:37:26.041 --> 00:37:27.959
or violence against
your neighbors.

00:37:27.959 --> 00:37:31.125
And so, I think that
that works both ways

00:37:31.125 --> 00:37:32.458
the destruction
of cultural heritage

00:37:32.458 --> 00:37:35.125
can signal that there\'s going
to be potentially violence

00:37:35.125 --> 00:37:38.333
against people,
but it can also help signal

00:37:38.333 --> 00:37:40.959
that we won\'t tolerate that.

00:37:40.959 --> 00:37:42.583
♪

00:37:42.583 --> 00:37:44.959
Mr. Riedlmayer,
that concludes your evidence,

00:37:44.959 --> 00:37:48.667
thank you for returning
to the Tribunal to give it,

00:37:48.667 --> 00:37:49.792
you are free to go.

00:37:49.792 --> 00:37:50.750
Thank you.

00:37:50.750 --> 00:37:52.375
Milosevic died in 2006,

00:37:52.375 --> 00:37:54.583
before his case
could be concluded,

00:37:54.583 --> 00:37:56.417
but the work
of Andras Riedlmayer

00:37:56.417 --> 00:37:59.041
and others like him
has had its effect.

00:37:59.041 --> 00:38:02.500
It\'s not just killing people,
it\'\'s about killing their memory,

00:38:02.500 --> 00:38:06.083
it\'\'s about killing anything
that they have done,

00:38:06.083 --> 00:38:07.875
anything that
they have hoped for,

00:38:07.875 --> 00:38:09.959
anything that they
have worked for, and Andras

00:38:09.959 --> 00:38:13.875
has brought that into
the discourse around war crimes,

00:38:13.875 --> 00:38:19.542
and has really pushed for
the recognition that that had

00:38:19.542 --> 00:38:22.792
to be accounted for
in the courtroom,

00:38:22.792 --> 00:38:27.083
that it could not just
be considered as a side effect,

00:38:27.083 --> 00:38:28.875
collateral damage,
but that rather

00:38:28.875 --> 00:38:32.083
it could actually
be used as evidence.

00:38:32.083 --> 00:38:34.041
♪

00:38:34.041 --> 00:38:36.250
In 2004, Miodrag Jokic,

00:38:36.250 --> 00:38:38.500
was sentenced
to seven years imprisonment,

00:38:38.500 --> 00:38:41.166
for the attack on
the old city of Dubrovnik.

00:38:41.166 --> 00:38:44.208
His superior was sentenced
to eight years.

00:38:44.208 --> 00:38:48.375
It was the first instance
in the history of modern warfare

00:38:48.375 --> 00:38:51.375
that the targeting
of cultural monuments

00:38:51.375 --> 00:38:52.333
was specifically charged

00:38:52.333 --> 00:38:55.000
against high levels
of responsibility.

00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:59.667
That has to give pause
to generals all over the world.

00:38:59.667 --> 00:39:02.750
These two top officials
were convicted

00:39:02.750 --> 00:39:05.375
not because it was proven
that they ordered

00:39:05.375 --> 00:39:09.792
the shelling of Dubrovnik,
but that they knew about it,

00:39:09.792 --> 00:39:13.959
did nothing to stop it,
and did not punish

00:39:13.959 --> 00:39:16.709
or prevent these attacks.

00:39:16.709 --> 00:39:17.917
♪

00:39:17.917 --> 00:39:21.166
In another case,
the trial judgment stated,

00:39:21.166 --> 00:39:23.566
\"Where there is physical
or biological destruction,

00:39:23.667 --> 00:39:26.208
there are often
simultaneous attacks

00:39:26.208 --> 00:39:28.500
on the cultural
and religious property

00:39:28.500 --> 00:39:30.667
of the targeted group as well,

00:39:30.667 --> 00:39:33.959
attacks which may be considered
as evidence of an intent

00:39:33.959 --> 00:39:37.417
to physically destroy
the group.\"

00:39:37.417 --> 00:39:40.417
The voice of Lemkin
could be heard,

00:39:40.417 --> 00:39:42.959
distantly, returning.

00:39:42.959 --> 00:39:46.542
♪

00:39:48.083 --> 00:39:51.583
You\'re dealing with voices
that have been eradicated.

00:39:51.583 --> 00:39:54.542
You\'re speaking on behalf
of millions of others

00:39:54.542 --> 00:39:57.417
who are not there,
they are not present.

00:39:57.417 --> 00:40:00.667
They are lying
somewhere underground

00:40:00.667 --> 00:40:01.500
or evaporated into air.

00:40:01.500 --> 00:40:06.250
So, the task of such a project
is to tell that story

00:40:06.250 --> 00:40:08.792
despite the odds against it.

00:40:08.792 --> 00:40:11.417
♪

00:40:11.417 --> 00:40:14.291
September 11, 2001,
the doors opened

00:40:14.291 --> 00:40:16.083
to the public
for the first time.

00:40:16.083 --> 00:40:18.041
And I remember going
to my studio in Berlin,

00:40:18.041 --> 00:40:19.917
and turning to my colleagues
and saying, you know,

00:40:19.917 --> 00:40:22.250
\"This is the first day
I don\'t have to think of history

00:40:22.250 --> 00:40:24.250
because now people
can enter the museum

00:40:24.250 --> 00:40:25.458
and they can experience
whatever it is

00:40:25.458 --> 00:40:27.542
that they will experience
I don\'t have to think

00:40:27.542 --> 00:40:29.750
about German-Jewish history
today.\"

00:40:29.750 --> 00:40:32.834
And that afternoon,
2:30 in Berlin time,

00:40:32.834 --> 00:40:34.125
we saw those images
on television

00:40:34.125 --> 00:40:36.667
of the attacks against New York,
against Washington.

00:40:36.667 --> 00:40:39.000
And I suddenly realized
that you can never really say,

00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:40.959
\"You\'\'ve finished with history,\"

00:40:40.959 --> 00:40:42.291
because the museum was closed.

00:40:42.291 --> 00:40:44.917
It opened its doors and closed,
there was such uncertainty.

00:40:44.917 --> 00:40:46.875
And I thought, you know,
there\'s a connection.

00:40:46.875 --> 00:40:49.500
Not only in the date,
but in the catastrophic,

00:40:49.500 --> 00:40:52.542
unpredictable irrationality
of history.

00:40:52.542 --> 00:40:56.208
The impact of losing it was
so decimating on every level

00:40:56.208 --> 00:40:58.875
across the whole population
of the city of New York

00:40:58.875 --> 00:40:59.709
and across America,

00:40:59.709 --> 00:41:03.583
it took on a meaning that
had more to do with culture,

00:41:03.583 --> 00:41:09.041
than it had to do
with other kinds of,

00:41:09.041 --> 00:41:11.583
another aspect of
the American identity.

00:41:11.583 --> 00:41:14.208
I think that whole
idea that it was

00:41:14.208 --> 00:41:16.709
a symbol of economic might

00:41:16.709 --> 00:41:19.500
I think is not foremost
in people\'s minds,

00:41:19.500 --> 00:41:23.041
it\'s the impact it had
on this community.

00:41:23.041 --> 00:41:24.333
♪

00:41:24.333 --> 00:41:27.083
I remember getting on
the phone to my husband

00:41:27.083 --> 00:41:29.333
and saying,
\"We\'\'re going to war.\"

00:41:29.333 --> 00:41:31.917
He was already at work,
I was watching it on TV,

00:41:31.917 --> 00:41:35.667
I knew what that meant
for us as a family.

00:41:35.667 --> 00:41:37.917
♪

00:41:37.917 --> 00:41:39.458
For the United States,
it\'s the first time

00:41:39.458 --> 00:41:42.667
that we realized that
our own soil was at risk.

00:41:42.667 --> 00:41:44.417
I braced for being deployed,

00:41:44.417 --> 00:41:46.625
but it wasn\'t
until the Iraq War

00:41:46.625 --> 00:41:49.291
that I actually
did get deployed.

00:41:49.291 --> 00:41:52.750
The Iraq Museum being looted
was a real wake-up call

00:41:52.750 --> 00:41:55.041
for I think the whole
Cultural Heritage Community,

00:41:55.041 --> 00:41:56.667
but it was especially
a wake-up call for me

00:41:56.667 --> 00:41:59.458
being an art museum curator
and an army reservist,

00:41:59.458 --> 00:42:03.542
and arriving there to
this ransacked museum

00:42:03.542 --> 00:42:05.250
and I couldn\'t help
but think about

00:42:05.250 --> 00:42:07.834
how I would have felt if
that had been my museum.

00:42:07.834 --> 00:42:09.458
The Italian Government
sent colleagues

00:42:09.458 --> 00:42:11.417
from the Italian Carabinieri,

00:42:11.417 --> 00:42:14.834
to help us with scanning
of photographs and images

00:42:14.834 --> 00:42:17.250
that we could put up
on the Internet,

00:42:17.250 --> 00:42:18.208
that Interpol could use

00:42:18.208 --> 00:42:20.291
to look for things
at Customs points.

00:42:20.291 --> 00:42:23.000
The requirement was that the
US would not itself loot it,

00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:25.792
and wouldn\'t bomb it,
but there was no requirement

00:42:25.792 --> 00:42:27.709
that it protect it proactively,

00:42:27.709 --> 00:42:31.667
nonetheless, the impact
through the press,

00:42:31.667 --> 00:42:34.542
to a large extent, really
I think changed everything.

00:42:34.542 --> 00:42:35.458
And so when I came back,

00:42:35.458 --> 00:42:39.000
we started a US Committee
of the Blue Shield,

00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:40.500
it\'\'s like the Red Cross
for culture.

00:42:40.500 --> 00:42:43.500
And so we created a committee
here in the United States

00:42:43.500 --> 00:42:45.583
that started
to lobby pretty hard

00:42:45.583 --> 00:42:48.417
to have the Senate ratify
the Hague Convention

00:42:48.417 --> 00:42:50.667
which finally
occurred in 2009.

00:42:52.083 --> 00:42:54.542
The first decade
of the 21st century

00:42:54.542 --> 00:42:59.458
was one, finally,
of rebuilding.

00:43:18.917 --> 00:43:22.667
Funds to rebuild the church
were raised internationally,

00:43:22.667 --> 00:43:25.792
including from people
who\'d seen it destroyed

00:43:25.792 --> 00:43:27.041
sixty years earlier.

00:43:27.041 --> 00:43:29.583
I didn\'\'t really expect
the Nobel Prize,

00:43:29.583 --> 00:43:31.625
and I didn\'\'t expect
all of this money.

00:43:31.625 --> 00:43:35.125
So I gave it to restore it
and to bring it back to life,

00:43:35.125 --> 00:43:40.000
creating some identity
again for a city.

00:44:24.667 --> 00:44:25.625
♪

00:44:25.625 --> 00:44:27.375
The tendency in Dresden today

00:44:27.375 --> 00:44:29.709
is to rebuild the city
exactly as it was,

00:44:29.709 --> 00:44:31.750
because it was considered
one of the most beautiful

00:44:31.750 --> 00:44:33.667
Baroque cities in Europe.

00:44:33.667 --> 00:44:34.792
When I won the competition

00:44:34.792 --> 00:44:36.458
for the Military
Museum in Dresden,

00:44:36.458 --> 00:44:38.959
which is overlooking
Dresden on a hill,

00:44:38.959 --> 00:44:42.083
I broke through that
wall with a wedge

00:44:42.083 --> 00:44:45.041
that points exactly
to the triangle

00:44:45.041 --> 00:44:47.667
from which Dresden
was bombed.

00:44:47.667 --> 00:44:48.583
Because I wanted people

00:44:48.583 --> 00:44:52.166
not just to see the military
hidden behind the walls,

00:44:52.166 --> 00:44:54.333
but to see that the
military, in democracy,

00:44:54.333 --> 00:44:58.208
is a very important aspect
to be in touch with.

00:44:58.208 --> 00:45:00.000
People can, at the
top of the building,

00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:02.417
look at Dresden as the
greatest really panorama

00:45:02.417 --> 00:45:05.750
of history of war,
and catastrophe

00:45:05.750 --> 00:45:08.792
and also a future
that is different,

00:45:08.792 --> 00:45:12.166
where the city can
really move forward.

00:45:12.166 --> 00:45:15.417
I think it\'\'s important
to awaken those feelings

00:45:15.417 --> 00:45:17.792
and those emotions.

00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:46.667
The 16th-century
Ferhadija mosque,

00:45:46.667 --> 00:45:47.834
at the centre of Banja Luka,

00:45:47.834 --> 00:45:53.333
blown up by the Bosnian
Serb Authorities in 1993,

00:45:53.333 --> 00:45:54.750
and the pieces hidden,

00:45:54.750 --> 00:45:58.333
some of them buried in
a municipal rubbish tip,

00:45:58.333 --> 00:46:00.041
others dumped into the bottom

00:46:00.041 --> 00:46:03.375
of the municipal
drinking water reservoir,

00:46:03.375 --> 00:46:07.208
nothing left except the
foundations on the ground.

00:46:07.208 --> 00:46:10.375
(speaking foreign language)

00:46:10.375 --> 00:46:13.750
The surviving Muslims
in Banja Luka said,

00:46:13.750 --> 00:46:16.834
\"Let\'\'s just rebuild it
quickly as possible,\"

00:46:16.834 --> 00:46:18.917
and then Professor
Hamidovic told them,

00:46:18.917 --> 00:46:24.000
\"Do you want to leave these
stones of the old building

00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:27.542
which for more than
400 hundred years

00:46:27.542 --> 00:46:29.250
heard the call to prayer,

00:46:29.250 --> 00:46:33.583
you want to leave these at
the bottom of rubbish tips?\"

00:46:33.583 --> 00:46:37.458
And at that point the local
community changed their minds,

00:46:37.458 --> 00:46:40.834
and said, \"No, let\'\'s
reuse the old material.\"

00:47:25.291 --> 00:47:29.625
For four centuries,
people needed that bridge.

00:47:29.625 --> 00:47:32.166
The question is not who
shelled and demolished it.

00:47:32.166 --> 00:47:34.583
The question is not
even why someone did it,

00:47:34.583 --> 00:47:37.834
destruction is part
of human nature.

00:47:37.834 --> 00:47:38.542
The question is:

00:47:38.542 --> 00:47:42.667
What kind of people do
not need that bridge?

00:47:42.667 --> 00:47:45.792
The only answer I can
come up with is this:

00:47:45.792 --> 00:47:49.250
people who do not
believe in the future,

00:47:49.250 --> 00:47:51.417
theirs or their children\'s,

00:47:51.417 --> 00:47:54.333
do not need such a bridge.

00:47:54.333 --> 00:47:55.709
♪

00:47:56.875 --> 00:47:58.750
How you rebuild,
how you commemorate,

00:47:58.750 --> 00:48:02.417
how you look forward,
how you regard the past,

00:48:02.417 --> 00:48:05.625
the Warsaw argument,
\"We will not be cowed,

00:48:05.625 --> 00:48:08.417
we\'ll just build them back
or we\'ll build them better

00:48:08.417 --> 00:48:11.792
or we\'\'ll build them bigger,\"
alongside the desire

00:48:11.792 --> 00:48:14.542
to commemorate
what had happened,

00:48:14.542 --> 00:48:16.333
to memorialize the deaths.

00:48:16.333 --> 00:48:19.834
That is part of the challenge
of rebuilding Ground Zero.

00:48:19.834 --> 00:48:23.041
Maintaining a balance
between memory

00:48:23.041 --> 00:48:24.750
and setting the
foundations for

00:48:24.750 --> 00:48:26.834
a twenty-first century
New York at the same time.

00:48:26.834 --> 00:48:30.834
I guess, this balance exists
in almost every memory.

00:48:30.834 --> 00:48:34.000
Because memory\'s always
poised on a knife edge

00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:38.417
between moving forward
and forgetting.

00:48:38.417 --> 00:48:41.000
But if you forget,
it\'\'s at a great risk

00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:43.458
to the moving forward.

00:48:43.458 --> 00:48:45.083
♪

00:48:45.083 --> 00:48:45.917
The cultural engineering

00:48:45.917 --> 00:48:47.625
that took place
after World War One

00:48:47.625 --> 00:48:50.500
has never really resolved
itself since that time,

00:48:50.500 --> 00:48:55.250
and I\'\'m afraid that it\'\'s the
US that flipped the switch

00:48:55.250 --> 00:48:58.959
by attacking and
deposing Saddam Hussein,

00:48:58.959 --> 00:49:01.750
and many political
commentators in this country

00:49:01.750 --> 00:49:03.917
were very concerned
about the domino effect

00:49:03.917 --> 00:49:07.875
that that would have, and
I think we\'re living to see

00:49:07.875 --> 00:49:10.041
that they were right.

00:49:10.041 --> 00:49:12.583
First, Ben Ali
falls in Tunisia,

00:49:12.583 --> 00:49:15.083
shortly after, it
starts up in Egypt,

00:49:15.083 --> 00:49:18.959
in a couple of weeks
Mubarak falls...

00:49:19.500 --> 00:49:21.125
...and then its Libya\'s turn,

00:49:21.125 --> 00:49:22.959
and we were all looking
at Syria and thinking,

00:49:22.959 --> 00:49:25.667
\"Is it going to start
in Syria or not?\"

00:49:25.667 --> 00:49:28.750
One week before the real
protests started up in Syria,

00:49:28.750 --> 00:49:32.208
Bashar Assad himself gave an
interview basically saying,

00:49:32.208 --> 00:49:33.917
\"It could never
happen in Syria,\"

00:49:33.917 --> 00:49:36.500
that he was fine and it
was different in Syria

00:49:36.500 --> 00:49:38.959
and his regime was not
like any of the others,

00:49:38.959 --> 00:49:41.291
and everything was okay,
and a number of experts

00:49:41.291 --> 00:49:42.917
were also writing
the same thing,

00:49:42.917 --> 00:49:45.625
and then it all went
kind of belly up.

00:49:45.625 --> 00:49:47.709
What looked like,
in the beginning,

00:49:47.709 --> 00:49:51.667
something that would lead
to a more open society

00:49:51.667 --> 00:49:53.709
has gone in the
opposite direction,

00:49:53.709 --> 00:49:58.000
and for people who had
lived in relative harmony

00:49:58.000 --> 00:49:59.667
for a long time to reconsider

00:49:59.667 --> 00:50:03.750
whether they had to put up
with each other any longer.

00:50:03.750 --> 00:50:04.709
Syria, in modern times,

00:50:04.709 --> 00:50:09.667
was created by the infamous
Sykes-Picot Agreement.

00:50:09.667 --> 00:50:12.500
People don\'t want
to actually have

00:50:12.500 --> 00:50:17.166
their identity attributed
to this division of the area

00:50:17.166 --> 00:50:19.792
after the fall of
the Ottoman Empire.

00:50:19.792 --> 00:50:21.542
The level of destruction
that would unfold

00:50:21.542 --> 00:50:25.250
in Aleppo and Homs had a
precursor with Assad\'s father.

00:50:25.250 --> 00:50:27.375
The regime operates
off a playbook.

00:50:27.375 --> 00:50:29.375
The playbook was
written by the father,

00:50:29.375 --> 00:50:32.250
and the playbook
very simply says,

00:50:32.250 --> 00:50:34.000
\"If protestors
come out on street,

00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:34.959
you suppress the protest;

00:50:34.959 --> 00:50:38.417
if the protestors don\'t
go away, you shoot at them;

00:50:38.417 --> 00:50:40.834
if the protestors
start to shoot back,

00:50:40.834 --> 00:50:44.083
you basically destroy
entire cities,\"

00:50:44.083 --> 00:50:46.792
Hama being the case in point.

00:50:46.792 --> 00:50:49.583
Nowhere in the playbook
does it say \"negotiate,\"

00:50:49.583 --> 00:50:50.792
there\'s no compromise.

00:50:50.792 --> 00:50:53.333
And so by the end of 2011,

00:50:53.333 --> 00:50:55.083
what had started out as
these peaceful protests

00:50:55.083 --> 00:51:00.583
had now begun to shift towards
an armed confrontation.

00:51:00.583 --> 00:51:01.917
Going through 2012,

00:51:01.917 --> 00:51:05.417
the regime lost control
of most of the country.

00:51:05.417 --> 00:51:10.417
By mid 2012, the ripple
effect had reached Mali.

00:51:10.417 --> 00:51:14.750
♪

00:51:14.750 --> 00:51:16.417
(shouting)

00:51:16.417 --> 00:51:19.208
The International
Criminal Court\'\'s Prosecutor

00:51:19.208 --> 00:51:22.709
immediately spoke out
when extremists destroyed

00:51:21.709 --> 00:51:23.375
important shrines
in Timbuktu.

00:51:23.375 --> 00:51:27.125
Deliberate attacks against
undefended civilian buildings

00:51:27.125 --> 00:51:31.583
which are not military
objectives is a war crime.

00:51:31.583 --> 00:51:35.500
This includes attacks
against historical monuments

00:51:35.500 --> 00:51:36.375
as well as destruction

00:51:36.375 --> 00:51:40.166
of buildings
dedicated to religion.

00:51:40.709 --> 00:51:44.250
These were particularly
very important sites,

00:51:44.250 --> 00:51:48.917
particularly, holding a
whole history of a region.

00:51:48.917 --> 00:51:52.542
Of course, the killing of
people is very, very grave,

00:51:52.542 --> 00:51:57.125
is very, very important, but
I think what complements it

00:51:57.125 --> 00:51:59.083
is where they\'re coming from,

00:51:59.083 --> 00:52:01.875
what they had, you know,
that complements it,

00:52:01.875 --> 00:52:07.500
and we should attach equal
importance to that identity.

00:52:07.500 --> 00:52:08.917
Court is now in session.

00:52:08.917 --> 00:52:12.417
(speaking foreign language)

00:52:12.417 --> 00:52:14.125
♪

00:52:14.125 --> 00:52:15.792
Please be seated.

00:52:15.792 --> 00:52:16.875
Under Article Eight,

00:52:16.875 --> 00:52:20.542
\"Intentionally directing
attacks against buildings

00:52:20.542 --> 00:52:23.166
that are dedicated
to education,

00:52:23.166 --> 00:52:24.375
religion, et cetera,\"

00:52:24.375 --> 00:52:28.792
and it can stand on its own,
you do not have to bring it

00:52:28.792 --> 00:52:31.166
in a wider context
of another crime,

00:52:31.166 --> 00:52:34.458
because it is recognised
under the Rome Statute

00:52:34.458 --> 00:52:35.875
as a very grave crime.

00:52:35.875 --> 00:52:38.208
That is what the
international community decided

00:52:38.208 --> 00:52:40.667
when we negotiated
the Rome Statute.

00:52:40.667 --> 00:52:41.834
This will be the first time

00:52:41.834 --> 00:52:47.500
that we will be looking
into crimes of this nature.

00:52:48.208 --> 00:52:51.500
The quick stabilization
that happened in Mali

00:52:51.500 --> 00:52:54.458
would not happen in Syria.

00:52:54.458 --> 00:52:57.083
The battle for Aleppo,
one of the longest

00:52:57.083 --> 00:52:59.291
continuously inhabited
cities in the world,

00:52:59.291 --> 00:53:00.959
broke out in 2012

00:53:00.959 --> 00:53:02.834
between regime
and rebel forces.

00:53:02.834 --> 00:53:06.333
It was the beginning
of civilization.

00:53:06.333 --> 00:53:08.583
And it was what made us

00:53:08.583 --> 00:53:11.083
to be able to live together,

00:53:11.083 --> 00:53:15.250
it is what made us
to become cosmopolitan.

00:53:15.250 --> 00:53:17.041
Cities were created.

00:53:17.041 --> 00:53:18.333
Beliefs were created

00:53:18.333 --> 00:53:22.375
that separated us
from animals to humans.

00:53:22.375 --> 00:53:24.500
To see a World Heritage Site

00:53:24.500 --> 00:53:27.041
being destroyed
on a daily basis,

00:53:27.041 --> 00:53:28.458
and no reaction

00:53:28.458 --> 00:53:33.500
from the international
community to act on that.

00:53:33.500 --> 00:53:34.333
It is sad.

00:53:34.333 --> 00:53:38.166
We still live on the
fringe of colonialism.

00:53:38.166 --> 00:53:39.291
Colonialism ended,

00:53:39.291 --> 00:53:42.250
but a lot of colonialist
practices are still in,

00:53:42.250 --> 00:53:44.417
so we are the
periphery in a way.

00:53:44.417 --> 00:53:47.500
Aleppo, it could be
as a heritage site

00:53:47.500 --> 00:53:49.333
a lot more
important than Paris

00:53:49.333 --> 00:53:51.667
because of the cultures
that survived,

00:53:51.667 --> 00:53:55.709
but it\'\'s not in the
center so to speak.

00:53:55.709 --> 00:53:57.125
♪

00:53:57.583 --> 00:54:01.333
In 2013, we were
looking at a civil war,

00:54:01.333 --> 00:54:06.792
and then it gradually evolved
into multiple factions

00:54:06.792 --> 00:54:07.959
fighting against
one another,

00:54:07.959 --> 00:54:10.333
looting of
archaeological sites,

00:54:10.333 --> 00:54:12.041
episodes of
intentional destruction

00:54:12.041 --> 00:54:16.000
of cultural heritage
caused by inter-ethnic

00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:19.500
and divisions
amongst those factions.

00:54:19.500 --> 00:54:21.542
I had to leave
because at the time

00:54:21.542 --> 00:54:26.750
there was all this shelling
from the Syrian army forces

00:54:26.750 --> 00:54:28.583
that you could not condemn,

00:54:28.583 --> 00:54:32.250
you could not
tell them to stop.

00:54:33.333 --> 00:54:35.875
You cannot turn

00:54:35.875 --> 00:54:38.834
your back to what\'\'s happening

00:54:38.834 --> 00:54:43.000
and you are involved anyway
because this is your life.

00:54:43.000 --> 00:54:47.417
It started from Syrian
expat archaeologists\' report

00:54:47.417 --> 00:54:51.208
on what\'s happening to
cultural heritage on Facebook,

00:54:51.208 --> 00:54:53.041
and then getting
that information

00:54:53.041 --> 00:54:54.125
from people inside Syria,

00:54:54.125 --> 00:54:55.542
either people who
worked previously

00:54:55.542 --> 00:54:57.625
for the DGAM (Syrian
Department of Antiquities),

00:54:57.625 --> 00:54:59.291
or students, or activists,

00:54:59.291 --> 00:55:03.667
especially from areas where news
agencies could not get to...

00:55:03.667 --> 00:55:06.583
so it started from
reporting what is happening

00:55:06.583 --> 00:55:09.375
to say, \"What can
we do about it?\"

00:55:09.375 --> 00:55:10.250
They are at risk.

00:55:10.250 --> 00:55:12.917
They want to feel,
despite everything,

00:55:12.917 --> 00:55:14.000
we are doing something.

00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:18.500
And it\'\'s a very important
connection with people outside

00:55:18.500 --> 00:55:21.208
because they don\'\'t feel
they are left alone.

00:55:21.208 --> 00:55:25.166
That gives them hope
there\'\'s somebody out there

00:55:25.166 --> 00:55:28.500
trying to help them.

00:55:29.500 --> 00:55:33.458
These networks across the
globe and inside Syria

00:55:33.458 --> 00:55:34.333
would become a key part

00:55:34.333 --> 00:55:36.667
of the fight back
against the destruction.

00:55:36.667 --> 00:55:40.458
When we did our workshop
for Syrian colleagues

00:55:40.458 --> 00:55:42.125
who are working
in areas of Syria

00:55:42.125 --> 00:55:45.417
that are not controlled
by the Syrian government,

00:55:45.417 --> 00:55:46.500
they did take a big risk,

00:55:46.500 --> 00:55:49.917
they crossed the border
into Southern Turkey,

00:55:49.917 --> 00:55:51.917
met up with us at a
predetermined location

00:55:52.917 --> 00:55:54.625
and we spent
three days together.

00:55:54.625 --> 00:55:57.041
That was a real revelation
to meet these people,

00:55:57.041 --> 00:55:59.917
understand the terrible
risks they take every day

00:55:59.917 --> 00:56:01.959
in trying to protect
cultural heritage

00:56:01.959 --> 00:56:03.250
in each of their areas,

00:56:03.250 --> 00:56:06.000
stabilizing walls
with sandbags,

00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:07.959
how to pack and
crate materials

00:56:07.959 --> 00:56:10.792
when you don\'t have
very much to work with.

00:56:10.792 --> 00:56:15.750
When the Ma\'arra Museum was
barrel bombed in June 2015,

00:56:15.750 --> 00:56:18.291
many of the rare
Roman mosaics were saved

00:56:18.291 --> 00:56:22.834
thanks to the protection
methods taught by the team.

00:56:24.834 --> 00:56:26.000
We have these site monitors,

00:56:26.000 --> 00:56:29.083
individuals who are trained
to gather information,

00:56:29.083 --> 00:56:33.000
and document any violations
that might endanger the sites,

00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:35.542
then we try and intervene
where possible,

00:56:35.542 --> 00:56:38.458
maybe use local networks to
try and persuade the locals

00:56:38.458 --> 00:56:39.208
not to do this.

00:56:39.208 --> 00:56:41.500
Also, we can bring into
play satellite imagery,

00:56:41.500 --> 00:56:43.750
and all this is part of
a documentary record

00:56:43.750 --> 00:56:46.625
that\'s necessary because
at the end of the day

00:56:46.625 --> 00:56:47.417
that could well be

00:56:47.417 --> 00:56:51.083
the only thing that\'s
left from these sites.

00:56:51.500 --> 00:56:54.667
Aleppo we\'\'ve been
studying very closely

00:56:54.667 --> 00:56:56.083
since the conflict began.

00:56:56.083 --> 00:56:58.083
We found that 99%
of the damage

00:56:58.083 --> 00:57:01.709
that we saw in Aleppo was in
areas that were not controlled

00:57:01.709 --> 00:57:05.875
by the Assad regime, so these
were all in opposition areas

00:57:05.875 --> 00:57:08.792
or contested zones.

00:57:08.792 --> 00:57:11.291
We feel comfortable saying

00:57:11.291 --> 00:57:13.625
certain groups
are there or not

00:57:13.625 --> 00:57:16.125
based on one side
of a conflict

00:57:16.125 --> 00:57:19.375
has a type of weaponry
or a type of vehicle

00:57:19.375 --> 00:57:20.542
that the other side doesn\'t,

00:57:20.542 --> 00:57:22.166
if we see those vehicles
there, then we can say,

00:57:22.166 --> 00:57:24.750
\"Well, it\'s that group
and not the other.\"

00:57:24.750 --> 00:57:30.041
This image is from December
of 2011 before the conflict,

00:57:30.041 --> 00:57:33.583
and this is the
location of the mosque,

00:57:33.583 --> 00:57:35.083
you can actually
see the minaret

00:57:35.083 --> 00:57:37.041
coming up from
the mosque here,

00:57:37.041 --> 00:57:39.083
then this whole area
is the Souk Al Medina,

00:57:39.083 --> 00:57:41.792
which is the large
covered market,

00:57:41.792 --> 00:57:44.250
and so we\'ll flip
over to an image

00:57:44.250 --> 00:57:47.959
that was collected
in July of 2014.

00:57:47.959 --> 00:57:50.417
The minaret was
actually destroyed,

00:57:50.417 --> 00:57:53.500
and then afterwards,
there was additional bombing,

00:57:53.500 --> 00:57:57.041
and then that\'s when we
see these large craters

00:57:57.041 --> 00:58:00.333
in the sides of
the mosque appeared.

00:58:00.333 --> 00:58:01.875
♪

00:58:01.875 --> 00:58:03.458
On June 10, 2014,

00:58:03.458 --> 00:58:07.917
ISIS took over Mosul,
Iraq\'s second largest city,

00:58:07.917 --> 00:58:09.208
and issued a list of rules

00:58:09.208 --> 00:58:12.000
that threatened people
and their culture.

00:58:12.000 --> 00:58:15.750
\"Our position on shrines
and graves is clear.

00:58:15.750 --> 00:58:19.250
Simply, all will be destroyed.\"

00:58:19.250 --> 00:58:23.834
Groups like ISIS are
essentially what we refer to

00:58:23.834 --> 00:58:25.375
as revivalist movements.

00:58:25.375 --> 00:58:29.083
Their primary goal
is to purge Islam

00:58:29.083 --> 00:58:31.959
of what they consider to
be non-Islamic practices,

00:58:31.959 --> 00:58:35.375
they then, essentially,
are able to revive Islam

00:58:35.375 --> 00:58:36.500
back to a position

00:58:36.500 --> 00:58:39.333
where it can now do
what it\'\'s supposed to do,

00:58:39.333 --> 00:58:41.250
and essentially
lead or take charge.

00:58:41.250 --> 00:58:42.792
You can think of
it as a diamond

00:58:42.792 --> 00:58:44.917
that\'s kind of
dulled over time,

00:58:44.917 --> 00:58:47.000
it\'\'s gotten dull,
dusty, grimy,

00:58:47.000 --> 00:58:50.250
and by losing its lustre
it\'\'s no longer shining out,

00:58:50.250 --> 00:58:52.500
bringing--the essence
of that diamond

00:58:52.500 --> 00:58:53.875
is no longer able
to come through,

00:58:53.875 --> 00:58:56.458
and for them, Islam has
suffered the same fate.

00:58:56.458 --> 00:59:01.083
The motivations for ISIS
would not just be doctrine...

00:59:01.917 --> 00:59:04.875
...but creating \"new
facts on the ground,\"

00:59:04.875 --> 00:59:07.458
and terrorizing
local populations.

00:59:07.458 --> 00:59:09.000
I teach professional
archaeologists

00:59:09.000 --> 00:59:13.667
who are Iraqi and Kurdish,
and we\'ve had students

00:59:13.667 --> 00:59:17.333
from all provinces
in Iraq, all religions.

00:59:17.333 --> 00:59:18.291
The course is called

00:59:18.291 --> 00:59:20.041
the Archaeological Site
Preservation Course.

00:59:20.041 --> 00:59:22.375
Our last one was in
August of this past year,

00:59:22.375 --> 00:59:23.041
so August 2014.

00:59:23.041 --> 00:59:26.625
It was the day that ISIS
was about 20 minutes away.

00:59:26.625 --> 00:59:29.166
♪

00:59:29.166 --> 00:59:32.041
I was really impressed
with the fact that

00:59:32.041 --> 00:59:32.834
that sort of community

00:59:32.834 --> 00:59:35.959
and that issue of
everyone working together

00:59:35.959 --> 00:59:39.917
to preserve multiple
heritages and not just one,

00:59:39.917 --> 00:59:42.834
was the thing
that was at risk.

00:59:42.834 --> 00:59:45.750
(indistinct chattering)

00:59:45.750 --> 00:59:46.959
♪

00:59:46.959 --> 00:59:51.625
And that\'s been really hard
to watch, from a distance,

00:59:51.625 --> 00:59:53.834
happen in Mosul,
in particular.

00:59:53.834 --> 00:59:56.417
The mass execution of men,

00:59:56.417 --> 00:59:58.750
the enslavement of
women and children,

00:59:58.750 --> 01:00:01.750
the destruction
of religious sites,

01:00:01.750 --> 01:00:04.208
is part of the ISIS effort

01:00:04.208 --> 01:00:07.041
to destroy these communities,

01:00:07.041 --> 01:00:08.959
to destroy all evidence

01:00:08.959 --> 01:00:11.709
of the pre-existence
of these communities.

01:00:11.709 --> 01:00:12.834
Like others on this panel,

01:00:12.834 --> 01:00:16.125
I was in Erbil, Iraq,
in August 2014,

01:00:16.125 --> 01:00:18.500
when ISIS advanced
towards the Erbil plain.

01:00:18.500 --> 01:00:20.083
When I saw the Mosul
Museum the first time,

01:00:20.083 --> 01:00:23.333
I was with a journalist
who was just back from

01:00:23.333 --> 01:00:26.750
the mass graves,
the Yazidi mass graves,

01:00:26.750 --> 01:00:28.625
and she and I were
sitting there and she said,

01:00:28.625 --> 01:00:31.083
\"Why is it that this is almost
more emotionally compelling?\"

01:00:31.083 --> 01:00:34.083
And I said, \"Well,
because it represents,

01:00:34.083 --> 01:00:35.875
it\'s the symbol
that represents

01:00:35.875 --> 01:00:39.375
not just one group of
people or some individuals

01:00:39.375 --> 01:00:41.917
but it\'s representing
ALL of this history

01:00:41.917 --> 01:00:47.291
and ALL the potential future
where this history could go.\"

01:00:47.542 --> 01:00:50.750
It\'s them taking
the ancient past,

01:00:50.750 --> 01:00:55.041
but also the symbol of the
Assyrian Christian community,

01:00:55.041 --> 01:00:58.250
and kidnapping it
and then beheading it.

01:00:58.250 --> 01:01:00.375
I think a lot of the
international response

01:01:00.375 --> 01:01:01.583
actually encouraged,

01:01:01.583 --> 01:01:04.333
much like we saw with
the Buddhas in Afghanistan,

01:01:04.333 --> 01:01:07.542
encouraged destruction
because there was a reaction,

01:01:07.542 --> 01:01:10.875
\"Well, everyone\'s crying
over this specific thing,

01:01:10.875 --> 01:01:12.417
this is a way we
can really get at

01:01:12.417 --> 01:01:13.959
the international
community as well.\"

01:01:13.959 --> 01:01:17.709
ISIS\' strategy would not
just be about destruction,

01:01:17.709 --> 01:01:21.375
but what would become
industrial-scale looting.

01:01:21.500 --> 01:01:24.583
ISIS has clearly used
destruction of antiquities

01:01:24.583 --> 01:01:26.625
and the looting as a
means of intimidation,

01:01:26.625 --> 01:01:29.583
it\'\'s part of their larger
battle of shock and awe,

01:01:29.583 --> 01:01:31.333
and it gets them on the
front pages of newspapers.

01:01:31.333 --> 01:01:34.458
They\'re so adept at
the use of social media,

01:01:34.458 --> 01:01:37.500
and it really is
an act of war

01:01:37.500 --> 01:01:39.250
that they should be
held accountable for,

01:01:39.250 --> 01:01:41.333
because it\'s not just
that they disagree

01:01:41.333 --> 01:01:44.709
necessarily with that view,
it\'s overall to intimidate,

01:01:44.709 --> 01:01:48.417
and it really is one of
the markers that we see

01:01:48.417 --> 01:01:51.834
that leads to genocide.

01:01:51.834 --> 01:01:53.542
In February 2015,

01:01:53.542 --> 01:01:57.750
the UN Security Council
adopted Resolution 2199

01:01:57.750 --> 01:02:00.542
which authorizes the use of
force for the implementation

01:02:00.542 --> 01:02:03.792
of a trade ban on ISIS
and the Al-Nusrah Front.

01:02:03.792 --> 01:02:07.375
Cultural heritage has been
put on a par in the resolution

01:02:07.375 --> 01:02:10.000
with all other \"peace
and security\" issues.

01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:13.792
We hope that countries will
move on an expedited basis

01:02:13.792 --> 01:02:15.458
to start to shut
down their market

01:02:15.458 --> 01:02:17.125
to Syrian
antiquities coming in.

01:02:17.125 --> 01:02:19.333
The trends are
going up significantly

01:02:19.333 --> 01:02:24.166
on the numbers of them coming
into the European Union,

01:02:24.166 --> 01:02:25.375
into the United States,

01:02:25.375 --> 01:02:27.667
and it\'s very important
we act quickly,

01:02:27.667 --> 01:02:29.417
not only to shut our market,

01:02:29.417 --> 01:02:30.875
but to help work
with other countries

01:02:30.875 --> 01:02:32.000
to make sure their
markets are shut down,

01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:33.000
but also to raise awareness

01:02:33.000 --> 01:02:36.333
so that consumers here in
the United States understand

01:02:36.333 --> 01:02:38.250
that if they are
buying antiquities

01:02:38.250 --> 01:02:39.959
from these crisis countries,

01:02:39.959 --> 01:02:42.625
that they could
potentially be funding ISIS.

01:02:42.625 --> 01:02:45.625
The Security Council
resolution, as it was adopted,

01:02:45.625 --> 01:02:47.250
deals with the
question of looting

01:02:47.250 --> 01:02:49.458
because that has been
viewed as a source of funding

01:02:49.458 --> 01:02:51.417
for terrorism and for ISIL.

01:02:51.417 --> 01:02:52.208
I agree with that,

01:02:52.208 --> 01:02:55.041
but the Security Council
has not taken a stand

01:02:55.041 --> 01:02:58.041
on the destruction
itself of cultural sites,

01:02:58.041 --> 01:03:02.667
again, by the Assad regime
or by any of the rebel groups.

01:03:02.667 --> 01:03:05.000
At the beginning of the
conflict, when we started

01:03:05.000 --> 01:03:08.583
talking about the need
to protect heritage,

01:03:08.583 --> 01:03:09.375
even we were criticized

01:03:09.375 --> 01:03:11.667
and I personally
also was criticized,

01:03:11.667 --> 01:03:13.250
saying, \"UNESCO
is out of touch,

01:03:13.250 --> 01:03:15.709
people are dying and
you are talking about

01:03:15.709 --> 01:03:16.834
some buildings
that are damaged.\"

01:03:16.834 --> 01:03:19.041
I think now with the conflict

01:03:19.041 --> 01:03:20.667
unfortunately evolving
and developing,

01:03:20.667 --> 01:03:23.083
people understood
that you don\'t choose

01:03:23.083 --> 01:03:26.583
between human lives and
protecting of heritage

01:03:26.583 --> 01:03:30.458
because it\'s
about identities.

01:03:31.041 --> 01:03:33.250
In dense battlegrounds
like Aleppo,

01:03:33.250 --> 01:03:37.333
direct intervention
is near impossible.

01:03:37.917 --> 01:03:40.208
In more exposed
sites like Palmyra,

01:03:40.208 --> 01:03:43.667
should troops be brought
in to protect sites at risk

01:03:43.667 --> 01:03:44.709
from intentional destruction?

01:03:44.709 --> 01:03:48.834
It\'\'s easy to say, drop
troops down and protect it,

01:03:48.834 --> 01:03:52.375
but practically think
it out, it doesn\'t work,

01:03:52.375 --> 01:03:53.417
unless we actually go in

01:03:53.417 --> 01:03:56.250
and hold territory
and hold ground,

01:03:56.250 --> 01:03:57.291
that\'\'s not going to help.

01:03:57.291 --> 01:03:59.500
If you\'re looking at it
from a military solution,

01:03:59.500 --> 01:04:00.583
that\'s what you have to do.

01:04:00.583 --> 01:04:02.000
You can\'t just
go in and protect

01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:04.458
an individual site
and not worry about

01:04:04.458 --> 01:04:05.417
the rest of the territory.

01:04:05.417 --> 01:04:06.667
And you have to protect
those soldiers,

01:04:06.667 --> 01:04:08.709
so you have to put
enough soldiers there

01:04:08.709 --> 01:04:10.291
so that they aren\'t overrun.

01:04:10.291 --> 01:04:13.041
I think we should
be trying to have

01:04:13.041 --> 01:04:15.125
a limited military solution,

01:04:15.125 --> 01:04:16.417
and a broader
political solution.

01:04:16.417 --> 01:04:18.959
Only a political solution
that ends the conflict

01:04:18.959 --> 01:04:21.750
is actually going to protect
the cultural heritage,

01:04:21.750 --> 01:04:23.458
and of course
would also protect

01:04:23.458 --> 01:04:27.125
the people who live there.

01:04:35.041 --> 01:04:37.041
The long-term
solutions will require

01:04:37.041 --> 01:04:39.834
all these aspects
working together:

01:04:39.834 --> 01:04:42.458
courts, governments, military,

01:04:42.458 --> 01:04:44.333
education, and awareness,

01:04:44.333 --> 01:04:47.834
but there are limitations
that stretch back a century

01:04:47.834 --> 01:04:50.709
that can\'t be ignored.

01:04:50.709 --> 01:04:52.000
Recognition of the role

01:04:52.000 --> 01:04:55.750
of cultural
destruction fluctuates.

01:04:55.750 --> 01:05:00.291
In April 2015, appeal
judges at the ICTY ruled

01:05:00.291 --> 01:05:03.417
that the trial judges had
\"committed a legal error

01:05:03.417 --> 01:05:06.667
in considering the
destruction of mosques.\"

01:05:06.667 --> 01:05:08.291
The appeal judges determined

01:05:08.291 --> 01:05:10.083
that targeted
cultural destruction

01:05:10.083 --> 01:05:13.250
cannot be considered
as evidence of genocide,

01:05:13.250 --> 01:05:17.250
nor possibly even
intent of genocide.

01:05:17.250 --> 01:05:18.792
The shelling of
the National Library

01:05:18.792 --> 01:05:21.250
was a crime Milosevic
was prosecuted for,

01:05:21.250 --> 01:05:23.667
but his death closed
the door on justice.

01:05:23.667 --> 01:05:25.542
It\'\'s been dropped
in other cases,

01:05:25.542 --> 01:05:28.041
difficult choices
need to be made

01:05:28.041 --> 01:05:29.250
when long lists of charges

01:05:29.250 --> 01:05:31.333
would result in
overly long trials.

01:05:31.333 --> 01:05:34.750
The ICTY will close without
anyone having to answer

01:05:34.750 --> 01:05:36.625
for that particular crime.

01:05:36.625 --> 01:05:40.166
The bridge in Mostar has
cautiously been recognized

01:05:40.166 --> 01:05:43.667
as a deliberate attack
in one case only.

01:05:43.667 --> 01:05:45.208
Military necessity is used

01:05:45.208 --> 01:05:48.458
time and time again
to cloud intent.

01:05:48.750 --> 01:05:50.208
The conflict in
Syria illustrates

01:05:50.208 --> 01:05:53.041
many of our problems in
applying international law.

01:05:53.041 --> 01:05:55.875
First of all, if we look at
the destruction of Aleppo,

01:05:55.875 --> 01:05:59.375
of the historic center,
and the mosque in Aleppo,

01:05:59.375 --> 01:06:02.375
or if we look at the fact
that the Assad regime bombed

01:06:02.375 --> 01:06:05.083
the medieval castle of
Crac des Chevaliers,

01:06:05.083 --> 01:06:08.500
both of which are
World Heritage Sites.

01:06:08.500 --> 01:06:12.125
Arguably, the Assad regime
could defend both of those

01:06:12.125 --> 01:06:14.417
on the grounds of
military necessity.

01:06:14.417 --> 01:06:18.041
Attempts to suppress
the culture of groups

01:06:18.041 --> 01:06:19.834
is a matter of human rights

01:06:19.834 --> 01:06:22.667
which should be dealt
with on that basis

01:06:22.667 --> 01:06:27.458
and we feel convinced that
there will be ample machinery

01:06:27.458 --> 01:06:30.667
in the Assembly
and in its committees

01:06:30.667 --> 01:06:31.458
or by other means

01:06:31.458 --> 01:06:34.834
for dealing with that
question in the future.

01:06:34.834 --> 01:06:35.959
This has never happened.

01:06:35.959 --> 01:06:39.166
What was called \"cultural
genocide\" by Lemkin and others

01:06:39.166 --> 01:06:43.417
has never been dealt with,
and it hasn\'t been recognized

01:06:43.417 --> 01:06:45.375
broadly as part
of human rights.

01:06:45.375 --> 01:06:50.417
Ultimately, the thing to do is
to go back to Raphael Lemkin,

01:06:50.417 --> 01:06:52.583
to go back to the
Genocide Convention

01:06:52.583 --> 01:06:55.458
and to insert those
vandalism clauses,

01:06:55.458 --> 01:07:00.041
so that we recognize
that what\'s going on here

01:07:00.041 --> 01:07:01.583
is part and parcel

01:07:01.583 --> 01:07:04.875
of that same attempt
to attack identity,

01:07:04.875 --> 01:07:08.542
to attack memory, to attack
people and groups of people.

01:07:08.542 --> 01:07:12.000
If there\'s a single thing
that would send the message

01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:15.458
that these attacks
are unacceptable,

01:07:15.458 --> 01:07:16.875
it would be to incorporate

01:07:16.875 --> 01:07:20.667
those provisions into
the Genocide Convention.

01:07:20.667 --> 01:07:23.542
Can the Hague Convention
be given more teeth?

01:07:23.542 --> 01:07:28.834
Number one, I think,
is ratification,

01:07:28.834 --> 01:07:30.750
and then I think

01:07:30.750 --> 01:07:33.125
you have to implement
these conventions,

01:07:33.125 --> 01:07:34.500
you have to translate them
into national law.

01:07:35.500 --> 01:07:38.375
I\'ve heard people say,
\"The 1954 Hague Convention

01:07:38.375 --> 01:07:39.917
doesn\'t work because, look,

01:07:39.917 --> 01:07:42.375
cultural heritage is
still being destroyed,\"

01:07:42.375 --> 01:07:43.625
but that\'s kind
of like saying,

01:07:43.625 --> 01:07:47.125
\"STOP signs don\'t work because
people still run STOP signs,\"

01:07:47.125 --> 01:07:50.250
well, you have to
fully implement it

01:07:50.250 --> 01:07:52.041
before you really know
if it\'s going to work.

01:07:52.041 --> 01:07:54.250
And when you have
new kinds of conflicts

01:07:54.250 --> 01:07:55.125
that we have today

01:07:55.125 --> 01:07:57.917
that are very much NOT
like World War Two,

01:07:57.917 --> 01:08:00.500
where you have these
different non-state actors,

01:08:00.500 --> 01:08:02.417
it\'\'s a lot more difficult,
but ultimately,

01:08:02.417 --> 01:08:04.125
the Hague Convention
exists to provide for

01:08:04.125 --> 01:08:07.166
a punishment mechanism for
those who violate it as well,

01:08:07.166 --> 01:08:11.917
and so that\'s why we want
to make everybody aware of

01:08:11.917 --> 01:08:13.166
and be able to document

01:08:13.166 --> 01:08:15.542
the destruction that\'s
going on right now

01:08:15.542 --> 01:08:18.000
so we can take a strong
look at this later on.

01:08:18.000 --> 01:08:21.542
The Hague Convention can
be made more effective,

01:08:21.542 --> 01:08:23.417
but it can only go so far.

01:08:23.417 --> 01:08:26.500
Cultural heritage
needs to be protected

01:08:26.500 --> 01:08:27.583
by more than a document

01:08:27.583 --> 01:08:29.750
that\'s bound by
the rules of war.

01:08:29.750 --> 01:08:33.000
The presence of the
military necessity waiver,

01:08:33.000 --> 01:08:35.375
the fact that protection
of cultural property

01:08:35.375 --> 01:08:39.458
is only considered part of
how you conduct warfare,

01:08:39.458 --> 01:08:41.250
not an actual
limitation on warfare,

01:08:41.250 --> 01:08:43.250
it means that these
will always be considered

01:08:43.250 --> 01:08:47.709
separate concerns and arguably
not as serious concerns.

01:08:47.709 --> 01:08:48.834
We can consider the question

01:08:48.834 --> 01:08:51.417
of whether in fact
the international law

01:08:51.417 --> 01:08:53.291
should be rejoined,

01:08:53.291 --> 01:08:55.583
so that destruction of
cultural property becomes

01:08:55.583 --> 01:08:58.875
embedded more in
international humanitarian law.

01:08:58.875 --> 01:09:03.000
In 2015,
Justice Trindade appealed,

01:09:03.000 --> 01:09:04.792
in a passionate
dissenting judgment,

01:09:04.792 --> 01:09:09.333
for a return to Lemkin\'s ideas
about cultural genocide.

01:09:09.333 --> 01:09:13.041
We see the statements
of Justice Trindade,

01:09:13.041 --> 01:09:15.291
from the International
Court of Justice.

01:09:15.291 --> 01:09:19.458
We see elements in the UN
Security Council Resolutions,

01:09:19.458 --> 01:09:21.458
not only dealing
with Iraq and Syria,

01:09:21.458 --> 01:09:24.917
but also with Mali where
this is clearly expanding

01:09:24.917 --> 01:09:28.333
to the sense that these war
crimes have been committed.

01:09:28.333 --> 01:09:31.250
These elements already exist,
and what needs to happen is

01:09:31.250 --> 01:09:34.375
for them to be knitted
together into a single.

01:09:34.375 --> 01:09:36.667
The idea that heritage
destruction could become

01:09:36.667 --> 01:09:40.500
a crime against humanity,
that\'\'s a very important idea

01:09:40.500 --> 01:09:43.375
and part of an extremely
important construct.

01:09:43.375 --> 01:09:45.500
I don\'t know that
it would provide

01:09:45.500 --> 01:09:48.250
a kind of Teflon shield
for our monuments,

01:09:48.250 --> 01:09:51.667
but it might mean that
there\'s more vigorous action

01:09:51.667 --> 01:09:52.667
on the part of governments

01:09:52.667 --> 01:09:55.417
that are embroiled
in these areas.

01:09:55.417 --> 01:09:58.291
(indistinct chattering)

01:09:58.291 --> 01:10:03.208
♪

01:10:03.208 --> 01:10:06.667
I think it\'s the first time
in a peacekeeping operation,

01:10:06.667 --> 01:10:08.208
so since 1948,

01:10:08.208 --> 01:10:10.208
that protection of
cultural heritage

01:10:10.208 --> 01:10:11.750
is actually part
of the mandate.

01:10:11.750 --> 01:10:14.583
So the mandate of MINUSMA,
of our peacekeeping operation

01:10:14.583 --> 01:10:17.500
to assist in the preservation
of this cultural heritage,

01:10:17.500 --> 01:10:18.959
and that takes
different forms,

01:10:18.959 --> 01:10:20.083
from very simple ones

01:10:20.083 --> 01:10:23.333
as making sure that the
mausoleums, the mosques,

01:10:23.333 --> 01:10:27.333
the buildings are regularly
visited, protected.

01:10:27.333 --> 01:10:31.667
Our troops know the GPS of
each individual building.

01:10:31.667 --> 01:10:34.208
We train also the Malian
armed forces and the police

01:10:34.208 --> 01:10:37.792
so that they don\'t have to
realize that it\'s important,

01:10:37.792 --> 01:10:38.917
but to make sure
what happens,

01:10:38.917 --> 01:10:40.500
the physical
protection of things.

01:10:40.500 --> 01:10:43.542
When I visited Mali
with the French President,

01:10:43.542 --> 01:10:45.458
it was just some ten days

01:10:45.458 --> 01:10:49.500
after the extremists
were pushed off Timbuktu.

01:10:49.500 --> 01:10:51.625
The local people who
came to talk to us,

01:10:51.625 --> 01:10:53.208
who were asking, even
the Imam was saying,

01:10:53.208 --> 01:10:55.583
\"What are you going to do
with these mausoleums?\"

01:10:55.583 --> 01:10:58.125
And we said, \"We have
to reconstruct them,

01:10:58.125 --> 01:11:00.834
the way we reconstructed
the bridge of Mostar.\"

01:11:00.834 --> 01:11:05.375
And that is why two of these
mausoleums are reconstructed

01:11:05.375 --> 01:11:06.500
and we will continue.

01:11:06.500 --> 01:11:07.750
It matters for the people.

01:11:07.750 --> 01:11:09.583
It matters for their identity,

01:11:09.583 --> 01:11:10.667
for their self-respect,
I would say,

01:11:10.667 --> 01:11:12.792
and also for their future.

01:11:12.792 --> 01:11:15.959
(indistinct chattering)

01:11:15.959 --> 01:11:17.709
Yes, we need
those conventions,

01:11:17.709 --> 01:11:20.333
yes, we need to
make a politics

01:11:20.333 --> 01:11:22.417
which can count with
military protection,

01:11:22.417 --> 01:11:25.458
with the ICC (International
Criminal Court), with others,

01:11:25.458 --> 01:11:26.959
but in the end
it\'s prevention.

01:11:26.959 --> 01:11:28.500
It\'s a change of mindset.

01:11:28.500 --> 01:11:30.875
It\'s the fight against

01:11:30.875 --> 01:11:33.667
this bad way of doing
your identity politics.

01:11:33.667 --> 01:11:35.709
That\'s, in the end,
what counts.

01:11:36.709 --> 01:11:37.959
♪

01:11:37.959 --> 01:11:39.875
There are other
glimmers of hope.

01:11:39.875 --> 01:11:43.667
People are working to harness
the power of technology,

01:11:43.667 --> 01:11:46.250
just as it\'s been
used to destroy,

01:11:46.250 --> 01:11:49.792
it can be used not only
to monitor destruction,

01:11:49.792 --> 01:11:52.834
but to rebuild.

01:11:53.375 --> 01:11:54.166
I saw that video,

01:11:54.166 --> 01:11:57.792
and I remember reading
about all of this

01:11:57.792 --> 01:11:58.667
when I was growing up,

01:11:58.667 --> 01:12:01.000
this is a shared history
that Iran and Iraq,

01:12:01.000 --> 01:12:03.417
and many, many places that
are now separate countries

01:12:03.417 --> 01:12:07.917
that were all part a bigger
either empire or territory.

01:12:07.917 --> 01:12:09.291
I don\'t think there\'s any way

01:12:09.291 --> 01:12:11.041
that you can really
replace these artefacts,

01:12:11.041 --> 01:12:13.542
whether your 3D scan
the original one

01:12:13.542 --> 01:12:14.709
or 3D print them.

01:12:14.709 --> 01:12:16.291
I\'\'m only creating an artifact

01:12:16.291 --> 01:12:21.000
that can become a reference
for now and in the future,

01:12:21.000 --> 01:12:23.333
for people to go back
to and at least know

01:12:23.333 --> 01:12:26.500
that this is what
King Uthul looked like.

01:12:27.250 --> 01:12:29.625
I decided to think
about the artifacts

01:12:29.625 --> 01:12:34.542
as also time capsules,
so I included memory cards

01:12:34.542 --> 01:12:36.625
and flash memories
inside the artefacts.

01:12:36.625 --> 01:12:39.875
It\'s sealed, so you don\'t
have to destroy the artefact,

01:12:39.875 --> 01:12:41.291
it\'s kind of
like a plug inside

01:12:41.291 --> 01:12:43.583
that you can pull out
and have access.

01:12:43.583 --> 01:12:47.083
That was another
layer to the project.

01:12:47.083 --> 01:12:50.250
We were started in response
to the 2001 destruction

01:12:50.250 --> 01:12:51.500
of the Bamiyan Buddhas,

01:12:51.500 --> 01:12:52.458
the Buddhas were destroyed

01:12:52.458 --> 01:12:55.041
and there was really
no record of them.

01:12:55.041 --> 01:12:56.000
By recording these sites,

01:12:56.000 --> 01:12:57.834
especially the ones
that are at risk,

01:12:56.834 --> 01:12:58.792
it gives us a new opportunity

01:12:58.792 --> 01:13:00.417
to tell the story
of those places,

01:13:00.417 --> 01:13:02.709
and to tell the
story of the places

01:13:02.709 --> 01:13:05.291
even when faced
with the uncertainty

01:13:05.291 --> 01:13:07.667
or the potential loss
of the physical site.

01:13:07.667 --> 01:13:11.500
We still have the data
and the information behind it

01:13:11.500 --> 01:13:15.291
so that future generations
can understand the site,

01:13:15.291 --> 01:13:18.875
its importance and its
role within our history.

01:13:18.875 --> 01:13:23.500
We\'re not only dealing with
things like climate change

01:13:23.500 --> 01:13:26.500
or natural disasters

01:13:26.500 --> 01:13:28.166
that greatly
impact these sites,

01:13:28.166 --> 01:13:29.917
but the human-caused
destruction

01:13:29.917 --> 01:13:34.000
is something that we\'ve seen
a huge acceleration in.

01:13:34.000 --> 01:13:34.834
So in response to that,

01:13:34.834 --> 01:13:39.041
we launched in 2013
our CyArk 500 challenge,

01:13:39.041 --> 01:13:43.667
which is to digitally preserve
500 sites over 5 years.

01:13:43.667 --> 01:13:46.542
The focus there is
really around sites

01:13:46.542 --> 01:13:48.750
that are at a very high risk.

01:13:48.750 --> 01:13:50.959
A new program, Project Anqa,

01:13:50.959 --> 01:13:52.834
provides emergency
documentation of sites

01:13:51.834 --> 01:13:54.333
at imminent threat
of destruction.

01:13:54.333 --> 01:13:56.500
We got this data
at about 3:00 a.m.,

01:13:56.500 --> 01:13:58.709
it\'\'s the Ziggurat of Ur,
in Iraq,

01:13:58.709 --> 01:14:02.542
and we\'re putting it together
so we can send out a data file

01:14:02.542 --> 01:14:04.333
to our guys in the field
so they know what areas

01:14:04.333 --> 01:14:08.083
to go back in and fill in
to recapture the scanned data.

01:14:08.083 --> 01:14:10.542
That way we can build out
a full, complete model of it,

01:14:10.542 --> 01:14:12.959
and that gives us the full
3D data that we can then

01:14:12.959 --> 01:14:16.250
do conservation work with,
say for posterity,

01:14:16.250 --> 01:14:18.000
in case things do
happen to the site,

01:14:18.000 --> 01:14:19.917
it is a volatile
part of the world,

01:14:19.917 --> 01:14:22.250
and then generally
educate the public

01:14:22.250 --> 01:14:24.583
about the site itself.

01:14:24.583 --> 01:14:27.625
Usually, we\'ll have
a direct connection

01:14:27.625 --> 01:14:30.709
in the middle of Iraq,
it\'s never very good,

01:14:30.709 --> 01:14:32.792
but we\'ll have
the team go out,

01:14:32.792 --> 01:14:33.792
do the terrestrial scanning

01:14:33.792 --> 01:14:36.250
so they\'\'ll take points at
locations around the site,

01:14:35.250 --> 01:14:37.667
send the data back to us,
we\'\'ll process it,

01:14:37.667 --> 01:14:38.709
see what they\'re missing,

01:14:38.709 --> 01:14:41.125
and then send that
back out to them.

01:14:41.125 --> 01:14:43.291
They had a lot of
issues with heat,

01:14:43.291 --> 01:14:45.083
because it is 60
degrees centigrade,

01:14:45.083 --> 01:14:46.792
so about 140
degrees Fahrenheit,

01:14:46.792 --> 01:14:51.041
the scanner can\'t really
regulate in those temperatures,

01:14:51.041 --> 01:14:52.875
so getting it all
the way to the top

01:14:52.875 --> 01:14:54.542
and scanning became an issue.

01:14:54.542 --> 01:14:56.333
But hopefully they\'\'ll
be able to fill that in

01:14:56.333 --> 01:14:59.625
when we get them
the data back over.

01:14:59.625 --> 01:15:01.125
The amount of time
they can spend out there

01:15:01.125 --> 01:15:02.583
is very limited,
so we\'re trying

01:15:02.583 --> 01:15:04.083
to streamline our process,

01:15:04.083 --> 01:15:06.250
to really give them
the opportunity

01:15:06.250 --> 01:15:08.250
to get out and work
with the data,

01:15:08.250 --> 01:15:11.291
but at the same time
not endanger them.

01:15:11.291 --> 01:15:16.625
The Tomb of Jonah was a sacred
place in Mosul for Jews,

01:15:16.625 --> 01:15:19.291
Christians, and Muslims,

01:15:19.291 --> 01:15:23.709
it was a symbol of tolerance
and a powerful reminder

01:15:23.709 --> 01:15:26.166
of the traditions
that we all share.

01:15:26.166 --> 01:15:30.083
The looting of Apamea
and Dura Europa,

01:15:30.083 --> 01:15:32.000
the devastation
caused by fighting

01:15:32.000 --> 01:15:34.458
in the ancient UNESCO
Heritage city of Aleppo,

01:15:33.458 --> 01:15:35.291
the destruction of
the Tomb of Jonah.

01:15:35.291 --> 01:15:39.625
These appalling acts
aren\'t just a tragedy

01:15:39.625 --> 01:15:42.917
for the Syrian
and the Iraqi people,

01:15:42.917 --> 01:15:44.542
these acts of vandalism

01:15:44.542 --> 01:15:48.208
are a tragedy for
all civilized people,

01:15:48.208 --> 01:15:52.500
and the civilized world
must take a stand.

01:15:52.500 --> 01:15:56.041
Heritage workers continue
to lose their lives

01:15:56.041 --> 01:15:58.417
defending our culture.

01:15:58.875 --> 01:16:02.750
In August 2015,
Khaled Al-Asaad,

01:16:02.750 --> 01:16:05.250
long-time custodian of Palmyra,

01:16:05.250 --> 01:16:06.959
was tortured and
beheaded by ISIS

01:16:06.959 --> 01:16:10.875
for refusing to give up the
location of hidden antiquities

01:16:10.875 --> 01:16:14.083
that he\'d cared for
his whole life.

01:16:14.083 --> 01:16:16.041
Eventually this conflict
is going to end,

01:16:16.041 --> 01:16:16.917
and when it does end,

01:16:16.917 --> 01:16:20.709
Syrians are going to need
to find some way of helping

01:16:20.709 --> 01:16:23.000
put their country
back together again,

01:16:23.000 --> 01:16:24.083
and it\'\'s going to come from

01:16:24.083 --> 01:16:25.917
this sense of
shared common history,

01:16:24.917 --> 01:16:27.166
this sense of a shared past.

01:16:27.166 --> 01:16:29.083
By saving Syria\'s past,

01:16:29.083 --> 01:16:32.792
you\'re essentially
saving Syria\'s future.

01:16:32.792 --> 01:16:34.417
♪

01:16:34.417 --> 01:16:37.875
In the worst refugee crisis
since World War Two,

01:16:37.875 --> 01:16:41.375
millions of Syrians
have fled their homeland,

01:16:41.375 --> 01:16:42.875
just as one hundred years ago,

01:16:42.875 --> 01:16:47.083
Armenian refugees fled
to Syria, to Aleppo,

01:16:47.083 --> 01:16:51.000
including Simon
Maghakyan\'s ancestors.

01:16:51.000 --> 01:16:52.959
♪

01:16:52.959 --> 01:16:54.792
The worst feeling
is powerlessness.

01:16:54.792 --> 01:16:58.417
When I look at what\'s
happening in Syria,

01:16:58.417 --> 01:17:02.875
including in Aleppo, all
I keep telling myself is,

01:17:02.875 --> 01:17:05.625
\"I wish I\'d seen it before.\"

01:17:05.625 --> 01:17:09.166
I don\'t know if I\'ll ever
be able to see it again,

01:17:09.166 --> 01:17:11.834
at least in the way
that it used to be,

01:17:11.834 --> 01:17:14.875
so there is a sense of loss.

01:17:14.875 --> 01:17:28.208
♪

01:17:28.208 --> 01:17:30.542
We saw this in 1990s
in the Balkans,

01:17:30.542 --> 01:17:33.291
here we are 20 years
later, we see it again,

01:17:33.291 --> 01:17:36.333
if anything worse than
what we saw in the Balkans.

01:17:36.333 --> 01:17:39.250
I don\'\'t want to be sitting
here in another 20 years,

01:17:39.250 --> 01:17:41.417
or my successor,
saying the same thing,

01:17:41.417 --> 01:17:44.250
\"Here we are, there\'s not
a lot we can do right now

01:17:44.250 --> 01:17:46.750
on the ground, we have
this great abstract law,

01:17:46.750 --> 01:17:48.750
but it doesn\'t seem
to be effective,

01:17:48.875 --> 01:17:51.417
or as effective a deterrent
as we would like.\"

01:17:52.417 --> 01:17:54.458
Only by taking
those steps now,

01:17:54.458 --> 01:17:56.542
to reintegrate these
parts of the law,

01:17:56.542 --> 01:17:59.125
make it part of the
broader mission and goal,

01:17:59.125 --> 01:18:01.166
that\'\'s the only way
that I think we can

01:18:01.166 --> 01:18:04.083
actually change and
ensure that protection

01:18:04.083 --> 01:18:07.709
of cultural heritage
for future generations.

01:18:07.709 --> 01:18:08.959
♪

01:18:08.959 --> 01:18:12.917
The surrender by Niger
authorities of the suspect,

01:18:12.917 --> 01:18:15.250
Ahmad Al Faqi Al Mahdi,

01:18:15.250 --> 01:18:16.750
and his transfer
earlier today

01:18:16.750 --> 01:18:20.250
to the custody of the
International Criminal Court

01:18:20.250 --> 01:18:22.125
is a welcome development.

01:18:22.125 --> 01:18:27.375
Ahmad Al Faqi Al Mahdi,
also known as Abu Tourab,

01:18:27.375 --> 01:18:28.667
is charged with the war crime

01:18:28.667 --> 01:18:33.125
of intentionally directing
attack against ten buildings

01:18:33.125 --> 01:18:35.417
dedicated to religion
and historic monuments

01:18:35.417 --> 01:18:38.291
in the ancient
city of Timbuktu.

01:18:38.291 --> 01:18:40.208
♪

01:18:40.208 --> 01:18:41.583
(shouting)

01:18:40.583 --> 01:18:43.417
No longer should such
reprehensible conduct

01:18:44.417 --> 01:18:45.959
go unpunished.

01:18:45.959 --> 01:18:49.625
It is rightly said
that cultural heritage

01:18:49.625 --> 01:18:52.667
is the mirror of humanity.

01:18:52.667 --> 01:19:17.500
♪

01:19:29.166 --> 01:21:45.417
♪